After seeing someone today filter past me between the middle & the fast lane on the motorway (the traffic was doing about 50 at the time) & then seeing that motorcyclist get knocked off (they were fine no injuries and walked away) when a car decided to move from the outside to the inside lane, it made me think what others opinions are on safe filtering speeds? 


                                                                                                                                                                             

It's impossible to put a speed on it as there is so much to take into account                                                                                                                                                                              

Easy, whatever speed you can still react to someone changing lanes....  If the vehicles you are filtering past are much over 20mph it gets dodgy.  You don't have to be filtering to get knocked off by someone changing lanes eithere,,, they can come into your lane at any time.

Oh yes,,, and that's what your horn is for....                                                                                                                                                                                 

Lime says it right I'd say Shell. Filtering past vehicles doing over about 20mph is "dodgy" or in my words, dangerous.

I regularly see bikes "filtering" between lanes on the motorway at speeds over 40mph and I think it's bloody stupid.

There are a couple of things to consider;

Firstly, the higher the speed of the vehicles being overtaken, the further to the left or right they can move given a measured amount of turn of the steering wheel. And once they're doing 30 or more it takes only a small amount of movement for them to very quickly move into your path.

The second thing is that if for example you're doing 50 "filtering" past a vehicle doing 45. Although you may only be doing 5mph more than them, if you do clip them and lose control, you still lose control at 50mph! And in heavy traffic!

I prefer to only filter when traffic is travelling at very low speed (sub 10mph) or ideally is stationary.

The guy in your post got what he deserved to be honest. He was asking for trouble and found it. What annoys me about these people is the image they create of bikers.

Fully agree with you there Geoff.   Too too many people in cars have an uncanny knack of lane change but don,t look! Having been a truck/van/car driver for many years I always tend to leave a gap or close up so they can,t fail to see you-not so easy on a bike-so for me it,s either sub 10mph or standing traffic before I,ll filter through..                                                                                                                                                                             

I agree ... as has been said here Ian has taught me well with regards to this & I will only filter if traffic is slow or standing,

The thread really was for advice for those just starting or wondering it themselves, 

I have to admit I thought knb as the bike went past on my inside, my heart near stopped as the car pulled out tho and the rider was bloody lucky was fully protected ... did have a limp but was very lucky to walk away                                                                                                                                                                             

I actually also agree with geoff ( i know, who'd have guessed)   you have very little room for error even at 10 mph. at 50mph nobody would expect anyone to be filtering.   The rush hour traffic on the m42 is usually goverened at 50mph. They're all so impatient that there dodging in and out all the time. You also have 4 lanes of traffic. The trucks unless their coming off are in the middle two lanes. you try and filter in that and you'll be burger meat in seconds.                                                                                                                                                                              

safest way to filter at speed is when cars are parallel s they cant change lanes. they may not see you but you can be sure they see each other
                                                                                                                                                                             

I can't believe some of you think the biker deserved to be knocked off I seriously hope none of you lose friends or loved ones doing something silly on a bike, cos god help you if you then think they deserve it.   As it happens, the police down here recommend that you filter at approx 10mph over the speed of the traffic, up to the speed limit. That of course is assuming it's safe, and that there are no adverse conditions etc.   I realise filtering is more common down here than up there, but even so I've filtered with other bikes all the way up the M6 at 50mph and over, and would never expect that if I got knocked off anyone would think I deserved it. Other than the very ignorant non-bikers that you occasionally get.   Honestly, I am completely shocked at attitudes here.                                                                                                                                                                              

OH dear, I'm in for a flaming methinks !!   I have, do & with all probabilty, will continue to filter/undertake whatever you want to call it. And often at high speeds. motorway speeds & above   I am in agreement with some replies here And totally against others.   JP, It's impossible to put a speed on it as there is so much to take into account . . Absolutley !!   Lime, Easy, whatever speed you can still react to someone changing lanes.  . . Absolutley !!   Geoff, The guy in your post got what he deserved to be honest.  . . . WTF !!   Blues, I do agree with your comment about trucks .. . They ALWAYS deserve bucket loads of respect !!   Duns, safest way to filter at speed is when cars are parallel s they cant change lanes.  . . Absolutley, and practice that myself.   Mitzi, YO!! Go girl !! Full agreement. And put so much better than I could.   I view filter/undertaking as a manoeuvre that I feel happy to carry out, taking into consideration the factors at the time .. .. I have filtered for some distance, but then slowed at times if I'm not happy about the circumstances. So to me its a horses for courses thing. If people dont want to do it .. no problem.   But as Mitzi says  I can't believe some of you think the biker deserved to be knocked off                                                                                                                                                                                 

well, i was doing so well with replying to stuff and thinking maybe i was not too bad with my atitude, but find myself agreeing with Mitzi t and GreasyTony, if folk think somebody else got what he /she deserved then that is their right to their opition, i`ve had to deal with all sorts of "accidents" and have a different opinion. yes filtering may be more common or practiced in diferent degrees up/dowm the country, but i will filter up to my (percieved) skill base in any traffic, on any road, in any country let alone county, and to be honest at any speed i feel comfortable with (yes i temper this with conditions/space/pillion!)   we improve (to a point admittedly) our skill set with practice/experiance/ understanding but to be honest, sometimes i just kinda enjoy getting through traffic faster, and getting back to the bits of road i enjoy, i try to never cut anyone up, make them slow/move out of their course but i ride a bike to make progress and get off the other end with a smile rather than a frown.   each, as they say, to his/her own.                                                                                                                                                                               

What I said may have sounded harsh, but dangerous driving is dangerous driving! If the same guy had come off due to trying to negotiate a 40mph bend at a ton, far faster than is clearly safe, would it still be unfair to suggest he deserved to come off?

This may come as a surprise to some, but not all bikers are safe, decent and considerate road users!

As it happens it is entirely possible that we are all (including me) jumping the gun in either criticising or supporting this rider as none of us (apart from perhaps Shell) know the full details. Was he travelling a lot faster than the other traffic or sitting with it until he felt it safe to take a car. Was he remaining in one lane apart from when he actually filtered or was he changing lanes repeatedly without warning? Was his being knocked off as a result of his filtering at all or had he being side swiped whilst travelling with traffic by someone who hadn't looked?

I think you are floundering a bit there Geoff. Now dont get me too wrong here, as I usually am in agreement with most of your views, including 'put your name down for some proper training..' Training is worthwhile, & rewarding, but once again 'horses for courses' its up to the individual.   I, for one, was not criticising or supporting the rider, I was criticising your comment 'The guy in your post got what he deserved'   Your analogy with taking a bend too quick dont quite cut it as it is  (assuming nothing else is involved) 100% rider error. Getting knocked off by someone who (presumably) has not taken time to look in mirrors etc, (whether acting unwisely or not) is not deserved.   The last part of my post deals with Shell's query what others opinions are on safe filtering speeds?  Safe Ridely !!                                                                                                                                                                                 

I find myself in strong agreement with MitziT and GreasyTony here. While I agree that not all bikers are safe decent and considerate road users, saying someone gets what he deserves is way too judgmental for my tastes. All I can say is that he who is without sin cast the first stone and mind you don't get what other people may think you deserve. There are some out there who think being motorcyclists is reason enough to 'get what we deserve'. One of the so-called Safety Camera Partnerships used to say speeding comes with a death sentence which I also consider to be inappropriate language but what do you expect from the likes of them?

For the record, I don't agree with high speed filtering on motorways especially in free flowing traffic. I have always waited until traffic has slowed right down to 10mph or less before filtering and doing so relatively slowly returning to a lane with the rest of the traffic as it speeds up to the region of 50 mph. The Essex Police with whom I did Bikesafe recommend filtering with a low speed differential like 5 or 10 mph and to be prepared for some dozy car driver to try to change lanes without looking.

Sorry, but I wonder how many people on this thread, disagreeing with my statement, have seen someone doing something daft, come a cropper and said to themselves "He asked for that" or "Serves him right" etc.

But because this guy was on a bike we can't suggest he deserved what he got?

I wonder what the consensus would have been if it had been instead a car driver weaving through motorway traffic at speed, something which we have all seen.  And if that car driver had hit a biker, knocking him off and killing him and then got sent down as a result.

Would we be able to suggest he got what he deserved or would that be too judgemental?

I've been riding bikes all my life and in an accident situation I'll side with the biker whenever I can.  But the truth is sometimes you just can't and if (and I emphasise if) this guy was indeed filtering at high speeds and someone cut him up because they weren't offered time to see him or just as likely, he clipped another vehicle because he got it wrong due to excessive speed, then he was asking for trouble.  And he found it I'm afraid.                                                                                                                                                                             

I have always filtered in traffic here and when i lived in manchester on M60/M62 and i admit to filtering at around 5-10mph faster than the moving traffic which could be moving at anything under 60mph ish.   Do i deserve to get taken out by some moron in a car...probably....but its my choice and my appropriate risk....and aint for any sanctamonious twat on here to tell me i deserve it!!!   @Geoff....its a long fall from a high horse!                                                                                                                                                                             

Kwakgirl, what if your actions cause a major accident seriously injuring or killing others? Is that your choice as well because it surely isn't theirs?

Oh and thanks for the blatant insult, we've never met, spoke or liaised in any way ever, but I'm sure you know me well enough to describe me as you have.

Kwakgirl I drive trucks for a living and if you are filtering past me at that speed you are asking for trouble it would take you about 200/300 yrds min to pass me and all I can say is I hope you never try it with heavy trucks when you are that close you wont be seen, I know I will get  ppl saying how can you not see them but there are very big blind spots on trucks even with 6 mirrors. You may have seen on trucks if you cant see my mirrors I cant see you but if you are on a bike you must go with if you cant see the driver in his mirror he CANT see you                                                                                                                                                                              

@ Geoff - yes you're right it was a blatant insult about someone ive never met and dont know!   now i'll remind you what you said "The guy in your post got what he deserved to be honest. He was asking for trouble and found it. "   see the similarity here????? not nice is it??