I understand that Ian , i was just elaborating on how things are done elsewhere in the world , things that would shock us to the bone but are regarded as the norm there . One of the reasons i'm here now and regaining a bit of my sanity ...lol's                                                                                                                                                                             

was it  s africayou lived buddy, one of my best friends lived there too,he is mow in oz, but coming back for thr bdb so hopefully you will meet him, i love the s african brandy and bulovors ( sorry for spelling )                                                                                                                                                                              

Klipdrift 3yr old , coke and some ice on a hot day with boerewors , t-bones and Karoo lamb chops sizzling on the braai ...forever to be taken for granted in SA . Still rather be here where i can take a stroll in the park at night and live without more security than our PM requires at No.10 . You dont have to believe me though , go see for yourself .

I don't have an issue with vegetarians at all.   After all, I eat them everyday                                                                                                                                                                              

no i do, my friend brian has told me all about it, i am with you all the way on the food and drink and hopefully will be taking  boerewors to the bdb, he told me horror stories about the place, will share at the bdb buddy                                                                                                                                                                             

Its not all bad , i would go back again for a holiday to visit my 2 daughters whom are happy there ! but the older you get the more of a soft target you become and i'd had enough already , at the airport i was singled out and threatened with a 12 month jail term for leaving on my British passport , a warning stamped in my passport on the 28th of May ! if i return on my passport i will be locked up . This because of one persons mistake on my returning from Sweden in 2004 and the laws were changed in 2006 . We had to run for our flight the 747 waited for me and my wife ...f##K them all .

I apologize for the above post , but its out of my system now , sorry .                                                                                                                                                                             

you go exc.sound as bad as me , you bought one of wannabes soap boxes too lmao                                                                                                                                                                             

Do man eating animals humanely kill before they eat                                                                                                                                                                             

  wild animals kill for food cos they're not welcome at the supermarket                                                                                                                                                                              

they go in our loacl, ya wanna see some of the beasts that shop in there lmao !!!                                                                                                                                                                             

local i mean                                                                                                                                                                              

My cousin lives in SA outside Joberg...I wouldnt want to live there..they have no freedom...their security is at risk 24/7 as they are quite affluent...living behind huge barbed wired walls with security on the gate and not being able to walk down to a local shop to get a pint of milk is definitely NOT for me!  As for riding motorcycles! I would never be able to ride alone safely like I do round Derbyshire..

Going back to thread again...I wont buy makeup thats tested on animals and I try to buy all my meat from sources where I know the animals are treated fairly and killed humanely...I would never ever stop eating meat..I support our UK farmers 100% (I used to do lots of the farming community accounts!) even through the crises of BSE etc etc Ive never ever stopped eating meat...as humans, we need meat for a balanced diet...

brought up on a farm ive wrang chickens necks done huntin shootin fishin!!and been fox huntin on horse back wiv the toffs! no body cares about exterminating rats,the fox is a great big rat!have your chicks killed by one in a night and youll start to dislike the buggers,a fox being chased by hounds is livin by instinct it has no conception of the fate awaiting it  jus the instinct of flight from something it doesnt understand,if you chased a human with dogs it would know all about  the  fate awaiting it that is cruel!however i am on the fence with the hunting issue,wont ever go huntin again but i wouldnt ban it! 

I used to live not far from the Quorn Hunt...I have seen how they hunt..its not fair...the fox doesn't stand a cat in hells chance...I personally don't like hunting..but each to their own that's all I can say!                                                                                                                                                                              

well the idea is to kill the thing!plus a grand day out!                                                                                                                                                                              

A quorn hunt? I've always wondered where they get that stuff from!                                                                                                                                                                             

"The unspeakable in pursuit of the inedible" come to think of it that applies to Quorn as well.    Dangerous stuff I upset a vegetarian by serving them Quorn as apparently it has egg white in it.  It amuses me me that you get dairy/non dairy veggies, fish/non fish, egg/no egg etc. At least with Vegans you know you cant feed them anything animal derived.                                                                                                                                                                                 

my ex, who i am still best friends with, is a veggie but after too many vodkas loves a donner kebab lmao                                                                                                                                                                             

I dont think a doner qualifies as actual meat Ian