Having ridden behind Bob with Karen as pillion,I knew I had no chance of keeping up on the twisties when he put his mind to it and I didnt even try.Actually,a heavy cruiser had trouble keeping up with the rest of them as well but we soon caught up when the roads straightened out a bit.The drop off system worked well too so all was fine. As he said,it's 10-11 hours hard fast riding which to my mind is fair warning and if you cant do that and still turn up,I dont think it's fair to expect them to wait                                                                                                                                                                             

Each to there own folks , have fun and ride safe :)                                                                                                                                                                              

In my experience - the slower riders in a quicker group should ride behind the lead bike - as it is less likely to spread out and they won't have to play catch up at unsafe or uncomfortable speeds. Not sure why a group ride is hard fast riding - that's best left to small groups, not an organised ride. The idea being everyone needs to arrive safely, not get lost. That said, it shouldn't happen using the drop off method anyway.                                                                                                                                                                             

well said Al, good post !!!                                                                                                                                                                              

Going off thread a bit, the rides organised on BM for the most part suit all abilities.  DaftUn (Karen) has taken it upon herself to organise a ride for the speed freaks - and why not I say .    I'm sure they are all more than aware of what ability/experience is required and don't need to be told by the more cautious (sensible) of us about the dangers lol.  (They're all mad I tell ya )   If anyone would like to do this speed freaks ride at a more leisurely pace (or part of it) let me know and I'll try and organise a shortened version or an overnight camp. (Minnie you got room in your back garden?) I believe the roads require some experience but it would be at a pace to suit all - I stand to be corrected.   Sorry for hijacking the thread.... just didn't want to start another one lol   I only ride pillion but have found that the best rides have a leader with someone at the back. Each rider should be aware of the rider behind them and if they can't see them when at a junction/roundabout you hang fire until they know which way the group has gone.  It's always seemed to work well.                                                                                                                                                                                

I agree BB...only been on a handful of ride-outs, but each one has been tremendous. The best thing about BM is the friendship. Everyone seems to look out for each other and show genuine respect for differences (of riding styles/abilities). We get together out of friendship, enjoy the ride and especially enjoy the craik at the stops !!
I am grateful for all the effort that the organisers put into these rides. Me n Tim need to be selective with the ones we choose (cruisers can be fussy!!) ..and its surely down to each individual to choose the ride which best suit their bike/abilities ? We know that Daftuns ride won't suit us.
It would be a shame to change what is clearly not broken !!
Looking forward to meeting lots more of you at future rides                                                                                                                                                                              

I tend only to ride with people I trust and if in a group will wait for you. I have arranged ride outs in the past were the rules are very simple.
The most important thing is to ride your own ride. if you come off trying to keep up it is your fault. you are in control of the throttle. If you have a pillion ride to their comfort. Your pillion is some ones son, daughter, partner, mother or father.    - ALWAYS keep the lights of the bike behind in your mirrors. - If you lose the person behind stop at the next junction or where it is safe and wait until you see them again. - Unless told other wise go straight on. - If you do get lost turn round and trace your route back to a place you know where you are or where you can get your bearings. - Text someone if you get lost and tell them where you are. - if you decide to leave the ride text someone   The idea of keeping the lights of the bike behind in your mirrors works on two ways.  Firstly it takes the pressure off the person behind. Secondly it allows the fas riders to ride their ride as the skill levels fall into a natural order.                                                                                                                                                                             

The idea of keeping the lights of the bike behind in your mirrors works on two ways.  Firstly it takes the pressure off the person behind. Secondly it allows the fas riders to ride their ride as the skill levels fall into a natural order.   I presume in order for that to happen, overtaking within the group is acceptable? I don't know what the rules are generally here (hence the questions) but on other forums NO OVERTAKING within the group is permitted whatsoever.   Still think some people have missed the point I was raising in the OP though but a good discussion non the less.                                                                                                                                                                              

I am not that keen on riding in big groups, its ok if you know most the riders and trust them, but it only takes one to do something erratic and you have a problem, and is it normal to over take in groups in these ride outs ? just a question ??                                                                                                                                                                              

Are you asking if the group makes overtakes or if the riders overtake and change their position within the group. I'm asking about the latter but the former is a good question too.   As ever, interested to hear peoples opinions, even if they don't agree with mine.                                                                                                                                                                              

I find that the more rules or thought that goes into rides where groups are concerned then the less enjoyable it is,,,,its nice to meet up at one of the points for introductions etc but then to me its about doing my own thing and enjoying it and meeting up at end,,,i know its off the post topic a bit but find groups a pain !!!5/6 max ok

Having a leader and a tail end Charlie allows for overtaking within the group, and it's perfectly safe, if your in a group and they are all traveling at the speed of the slowest then before long the group will become a mobile chicane. Not good in my opinion, I've been on a ride out at a brisk pace where the leader was limited to 70 mph, between him and Charlie at the back anything goes and as has been said playing catch up can be fun.
I normally ride with a group of 7 of us and we know how each other rides and each of us knows our own comfort zone and believe me all of us go pretty mental at times where we know we can do it.
As for the fast ride being done up north I would not go on it because I would feel out of my zone, I can ride fast but not for those sort of distances.
Just my opinion. Roachy wrote "I pr. I presume in order for that to happen, overtaking within the group is acceptable? I don't know what the rules are generally here (hence the questions) but on other forums NO OVERTAKING within the group is permitted whatsoever. Sounds a bit boring to me looking at the same arse all day                                                                                                                                                                             

On rides out we don't have overtaking to change position in the group, the only exception to that is when I have been pilly and getting photos of the riders in motion (which people seem to like having) and then it will be aranged at a stop, each rider will be told what we will do, when we will do it and how Ian will be positioned and if they want there pic taken what we need them to do, thankfully my camera is a fast one so it is something that is done with the minimal of fuss as we go past.

Overtaking vehicles yup that happens, but again it's down to the safety of the manoeuvre, if you wouldn't do it as a single rider you don't do it as a group, and if the one behind you doesn't get past, you wait, you don't fly off,

are you people joking 320 miles in 10 or more hours even with stops it's not that quick, i would have though the length of the ride would be more of a problem especially when you take into account the miles needed to get to the start. if i was doing it as a quick ride i would expect to do it in half that time with only a petrol stop. If the time and the distance is no problem to you it should be a reasonably easy ride depending on what bike your on.

I agree with Craig - five to six riders max in a group suits me.  I think it's important that the tail end charlie knows the route and that all members of the ride know stop points as well as destination.  But that pretty much limits the rules that need to be in place.

A small group means the ride can be more progressive, everyone can keep an eye on everyone else, not just the rider behind and as long as the leader is sensible about pace, there should be no need for other riders to feel they have to push themselves to keep up.

And by "progressive, I'm not talking necessarily about being able to maintain high speeds.  A "progressive" ride is one where there are little delays caused by riders further down the group having to catch up.  Typical examples of this are at junctions, where turning out of a busy junction can be a nightmare in a big group.  Another example is overtakes.  Even in a group of six the leader is very unlikely to find an overtaking opportunity where everyone can get past in one go, let alone if there's ten, fifteen or more bikes!  However, with the smaller group, the leader can be comfortable in the knowledge that he or she can overtake a slower vehicle, make a little room between themselves and the vehicle just overtaken and then the rest of the group will be able to overtake over the next couple of miles or so.  As I've said elsewhere, in large groups overtakes are generally out.  On official RoSPA runs, we have very progressive rides, but because we have to be seen to be obeying the law at all times, speed limits are adhered to.  (You'd be amazed how challenging it is to maintain 60mph down a small country lane!)

The comment about "not just the rider behind" isn't a criticism of the "buddy" system either, as I personally feel it's a good system.  It's just in small groups, it's rarely needed.

And finally, to answer Roachy's question, with only four, five or six riders in a group, there's simply no need to overtake other members of the ride.                                                                                                                                                                             

this is a good debate , lets keep the opinions, Shell...thats great if everyone sticks to the none overtaking, but i also agree with Geoff, large groups at junctions etc can be a nightmare too !!!                                                                                                                                                                              

i managed to lose most of a large bunch at a road junction last year did't know they weren't with us but we meet at the next cafe
                                                                                                                                                                             

Ian it's something that has never been an issue to be honest, even when in a big group, even those who like to redline it (you know who you are lol ) have kept with the group and in position.

When we did Wales and some of the roads were testing my riding skills, 12 bikes behind me, not one overtook even tho they could have done.

puts my mind at rest a bit shell, thanks                                                                                                                                                                              

If it was me riding in front of 12 bikes they couldnt overtake even they wanted to, as my butt takes up far too much room !!!