i get some mail like this and dismiss it , coz we dont have the problem up here in the frozen north,
but should  i be so relaxed about it,
or /and should this be asked on here /
 
BE AWARE BE VERY AWARE
 

With Muslims establishing their own schools, one wonders how their kids will acquire our values and be able to successfully integrate into our society.
This incident happened in London .
 
The Uncomfortable Definition of... an Infidel...

FACT: Islam is the fastest growing religion in the UK
Last month I attended my annual training session for maintaining my security clearance in the prison service.
There was a presentation by three speakers from the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained their beliefs.

I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say about the basics of Islam, complete with video.
After the presentations, question time.. I directed my question to the Imam and asked: 'Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a Holy War against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?'
There was no disagreement with my statement and, without hesitation he replied, 'Non-believers!'

I responded, 'So let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not a follower of Allah, so they can have a place in heaven. Is that correct?'
The expression on his face changed from one of authority to that of a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the biscuit tin.'

He sheepishly replied, 'Yes.'
I then stated, 'Well, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope Benedict commanding all Catholics to kill Muslims, or the Archbishop of Canterbury ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in heaven!'
The Imam was speechless!

I continued, 'I also have a problem with being your 'friend' when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me! Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me in order for you to go to heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because He will take me to heaven and He wants you to be there with me?'

You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam remained speechless.

Needless to say, the organizers of the Diversification seminar were not happy with this way of exposing the truth about the Muslims' beliefs.

Within twenty years, ie. 2029, there will be enough Muslim voters in the UK to elect a government of their choice, complete with Sharia law.

Everyone in the U.K. should be required to read this, but with the current political paralysis, tolerant justice system, liberal media and P.C...madness, there is no way this will be widely publicised.

Please pass this on to all your e-mail contacts.

Jo hn Harrison MBE. MIDSc                                                                                                                                                                             

It is a worry... I think..... We have to tread so very carefully with extremists of any kind. We are a democracy, and that means tolerating other views,opinions etc... but where ffs, do you draw the line??? If Muslims start killing us infidels surely we'll have to do something, but maybe many muslims do not adhere to the " letter" of Islam and look upon it as a general "guide" as many Christians view the bible. So again we come back to " extremists" all religions have them and are an embarrassment to the religion they follow...a dangerous breed indeed!

which would require about eleven million pregnant muslim women for there to be enough 18 years old ready to vote in 2029..... NHS maternity department know?                                                                                                                                                                             

Yes, you do need to worry; about the unpleasant people who spread this type of nonsense. 

The text appears to be cut & paste from something similar that was doing the rounds in the States a few years ago.  See this entry on snopes.com, an Internet rumor/spam tracking site.

I guess the people who start these things just want to stir up trouble for some weird reason of their own.  Personally, I think we've got enough real problems without inventing new ones.                                                                                                                                                                             

I reckon almost all the genuine muslim people in this country just want to live a peaceful life the same as the rest of us, worship whatever god they're into, and hang on to a little bit of their own culture whilst going about minding their own business. I see nothing wrong with that, this country like many others has been built on that for centuries, and people who move away from here like to do the same. It's easy to tar everyone with the same brush as the gobby trouble causers, but we aren't much different, TBH most of the rest of the world thinks all englishmen are football hooligans. I'd like to see where it says in the koran about killing non muslims, i bet no-one can actually find it.                                                                                                                                                                             

You can't believe what you read can you!!! I can quite understand how text like that stirs up racial hatred, thankyou for enlightening me Mr Sonny

                                                                                                                                                                             

Well said Clarkee !                                                                                                                                                                               

  Clarkee!!!!

Before you dismiss everyone who speaks out or sends emails regarding Islam and Muslims or label them troublemakers, Racists, Bigots etc, (which is so easy in our PC society).
You could, ask yourself,  Which religion did, the people responsible for 9/11, the London bombings, Poppy Burning, Suicide Bombings all over the middle East, the murder of the gay Dutch politician etc etc, all follow?.
Then, you could wonder why they do that?. What agenda do they have.  You could wonder why there are Mosques appearing all over Europe,  (even further than up than the frozen north of Elgin).  Hasnt a Muslim recently been convicted of the attempted murder, of the Danish cartoonist, because he portrayed thier prophet as an animal.  Makes you wonder what would have happened to the Monty Python crew, for "The life of Brian", if Christians carried on like that.
  That also could raise the question, how does Islam stand on the freedom of speech.  How does Islam recognise the rights of women?.
If you read the book, The Bookseller of Kabul, it says that the Taliban in Afganistan, burnt all the books they could find, with pictures of "any living thing", Humans, Animals, Birds etc.  They pactice Sharia law, which if you dont believe everything you read, some Muslim communities want, in thier communities in Britain.

You could look at the pictures of Muslim fanatics, openly protesting in London with placards proclaiming "Islam will conquer the World",  "To hell with freedom".  Condeming our troops as "Child murderers".  The list goes on and on.
Then, you can dismiss people like Geert Wilders, who lives under 24 hr protection for his views on Islam, as a Bigot, Racist, Troublemaker etc, as the press like to do.  You could wonder why he isnt allowed  to speak over here, when a Muslim can hold up placards saying, "Death to non believers", in a London street.  But Wilders is just a Racist isnt he ?.
Wilders asks regarding Islam,  Why WE, should tolerate, the intolerant?.  Seems reasonable to me, but, He's just a troublemaker, isnt he ?!
I was brought up a Christian and later have studied Buddhism and used to practice meditation. Seems to me those two religions are all about Love, Forgiveness, Faith, Personal development and growth and, love for others.  But there again, I am biased and Racist and a Bigot for being very worried about the spread of Islam....are'nt I?.

You could, read the Bookseller of Kabul, you could watch Geert Wilders short film FITNA.  You could have a look at this website for a start, http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/.  Then you CAN make your own minds up. You are still free to do that!.

The Buddha spent his whole life searching for the "The Dharma", the truth.  Only after a lifetme of suffering, sacrifice and denial etc, did he become Enlightened.  I percieve myself as open and still growing and learning, But there again, I am just a Racist Bigot, because I am, very worried about the growth of Islam and its impact and aims...are'nt I.

As Bikers, we all fiercely defend our freedom to ride and enjoy the bonds and companoinship with our fellow bikers.  We are under constant threat from legislation and public perception and acceptance of us.  But, do we try to force anyone to enjoy or take part in our lifestyle?.  Thats where I am coming from

Well said Clarkee.                                                                                                                                                                                

Thank you DriftnSlide, rant over!. Now, where did I leave my prayer mat?.                                                                                                                                                                              

and what about the past troubles in Northern Ireland and the bombings in UK? down to  Catholics & Protestants (no Muslims involved there!)
What about so-called "Christians" persecuting Jews???

Organised Religion has a lot to answer for on all sides 

                                                                                                                                                                             

I'm a very big fan of disorganised religion myself....                                                                                                                                                                             

HippyRockChick, the original post was about the definition of an Infidel.
Why would Muslims be involved in the "Struggles" in Northern Ireland when, it was essentially about the British occupation of the north of Ireland ?. (No Muslims involved there).......?.

What about Muslims wanting the Holocaust, taken out of the Schools History curriculum because they regard it as a lie, it never happened apparently and they find it offensive?.  Denial of persecution on that scale beggars belief.

Whilst I agree with a lot of what clarkee has said, I think some of the points are way too far ahead.  Extremists are not currently taking over the world (or this country for that matter), they are a minority who unfortunately screw things up for the rest of us.  Which is always the case with terrorists of any kind.  I agree that certain meassures should be taken, i.e... any ministers preaching hatred to the detriment of the country and its cultures, should be challenged.  However this should not be challenged through violence of extreme force, unless absolutely neccessary.  Deportation, prison or the shutting down of the mosque in question, allowing this kind of hate mongering are alternatives which will get the message accross.
The problem is, in a civilised society you have to prove to the rest of the world, that your culture is secure, and can tolerate these attempts by fundamentalist minorities, to damage or reduce it.
In an nutshell......intolerance of any kind breeds hatred, and hatred breeds violence.  When this happens, things become intrenched and it eats away at communities like a cancer, for generations to come.  I've grown up and lived with the problems in N Ireland all my life, seen some horrible things and watched the same sh1t go round in circles for 2 generations.
Firm but fair is a good attitude to bring a country forward, and preserve its cultures.

(quote clarkee)

Why would Muslims be involved in the "Struggles" in Northern Ireland when, it was essentially about the British occupation of the north of Ireland ?.

Errm, clarkee... Northern Ireland was/is British, so the case you make was not an occupation.  Furthermore it was the Roman Catholic community in N Ireland that requested the British troops onto the streets of N Ireland in 1969.
                                                                                                                                                                             

Very well said DriftnSlide. A lot of shit and prejudice is handed down from generation to generation.  The problem is the nutters and extremists who swallow it and try to impose it on the rest of us.  I'm all for freedom of choice and speech and, against anything or anybody who threatens that.
Secure culture....now theres a project
                                                                                                                                                                             

DriftnSlide, bit slow with my posts, you posted again while I was one finger typing a reply.   My point was slightly sarcastic to HippyRockChick. It was obvious there were no Muslims inviolved in the troubles in northern ireland.                                                                                                                                                                              

I think I am a pretty tolerant sort of bloke and willingly accept anybodies point of view,belief system or way of life. I just want to be left alone to get on with my life the way I want to live it and I get a bit annoyed when the knock on the door comes and the Jehovah's Witness or Mormon or whoever it may be won't take no for an answer and go away. I don't care what religion others choose to follow or indeed are born into but I do get fed up with the word muslim constantly in the news or in the papers,you don't (or very rarely anyway) hear Hindu or Sikh.Why? They practise their religion and don't try to ram it down everyone elses throat. You can ride around any major city or even towns for that matter and find temples,mosques,synagogues and if you look hard enough,witches coverns but I wonder how many churches you are liable to find in places like Saudi Arabia or Yemen? Even the Coptics of Egypt are coming under more and more pressure.Tolerance has to work from all sides if it is to work at all