After reading this following article it made me wonder how much responsibility should fall to the rider and how much to the pillion ???   A MOTORCYCLIST who admitted causing the death of his pillion passenger after riding his motorcycle while drunk has been jailed for four-and-a-half years.Kevin Dutton, 31, from Stoke-on-Trent, was involved in an accident which killed passenger Stephen Bradbeer, a 36-year-old pub landlord, in August last year.When tested, Dutton was found to be twice over the drink drive limit, Stoke-on-Trent Crown Court heard.He was also banned from driving for seven years.   Each time i opt to grab a pillion seat then surely i should take the responsible decision of whether that person is fit to ride or not. If for instance they have had a drink or two and i still choose to get on then more fool me and i should be held responsible for my own actions.   Just my opinion how about yours?                                                                                                                                                                             

I suppose the question in that instance was how over the limit was the pillion? (if at all)   But, yep I agree - being a pillion it's down to you as to whether you trust the rider or not & you make the decision accordingly. If I don't trust the rider, I wont get on.                                                                                                                                                                              

Rider has to be 100% responsible for their pillion. As such that guy deserved everything that was coming.   But a pilllion who gets on, knowing the rider has been drinking is an idiot. And, in this case, paid the ultimate price.   ( Same goes for car drivers / passengers )                                                                                                                                                                             

I agree ... I am 100% responsible for me, no matter how good a rider says they are... or indeed how good others say they are its my ass thats going to end up with the road rash if it goes pear shaped.   There are very few people I would trust enough to get on the back of, mainly as Ian will vouch, because I have had riders comment that they have not been able to tell I am pilly with them, even Ian has forgotten I have been on the back of him before now   As for getting on the back of someone who had been drinking ... well I would not get into a car with someone who had had a few so no way on gods green earth would I go pilly with a rider that had had 1 let alone more... thats my view                                                                                                                                                                             

I wouldn't get in a car nor go on a bike with someone who'd had a drink in them.  youtube.com/watch?v=Z2mf8DtWWd8   We need an advert like this in the UK then maybe, just maybe drink drivers would think twice                                                                                                                                                                              

.... i'm completely with Rob1050 on this one! ........   (and yet, i do understand and agree that it comes down to the pillion  in making the choice to put there trust in the rider. .......or not !)                                                                                                                                                                             

I agree jeanz, pity most would just turn it over.   We need stronger penalties too IMO, if you drive, bike or car, after a drink & cause a death its murder, you know that drinking will slow down your reflexes, impair judgement etc etc, so if you have an accident knowing all of this then its your fault.                                                                                                                                                                             

Shell, murder would be very hard to prove as there would have to be pre-meditation. Even if they were negligent in some way through drink or drugs etc. there wouldn't have been any intention to kill, even if they knew that could be a risk of it.  I think though, that a charge of manslaughter should be given to anyone in charge of a vehicle that couses a death of anyone through negligence.                                                                                                                                                                              

Murder is when a man of sound memory, and of the age of discretion, unlawfully killeth within any country of the realm any reasonable creature in rerum natura under the King's peace, with malice aforethought, either expressed by the party or implied by law, so as the party wounded, or hurt, etc. die of the wound or hurt, etc. within a year and a day after the same. Specifically in the criminal law malice aforethought (or malice prepense) is the element of "guilty mind" which must accompany the act in order to secure a conviction for murder under the law. In other words, knowledge that through an action or omission, the result will be some one's death.     Thats the definition of murder in English law     You know that when you get in a vehicle drunk that there is a good chance you could kill someone ... therfore murder.. easy in my book blues                                                                                                                                                                              

Your correct that there doesn't need to be premeditation but you would have to prove an intent to kill. If They would have known that their actions would definatly kill some one.  death is not always the outcome of a D U I or using a mobile while driving.    I M O it would be reckless or constructive manslaughter.    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malice_aforethought.                                                                                                                                                                              

If I knew someone had had a drink I would not get on the back - end of - we all take a chance when we ride but to knowingly get on the back of someone who had, had a drink, well...............                                                                                                                                                                             

I also think its the pilles responsibility to know the history of the rider, and if you are unsure, then you don't go there                                                                                                                                                                             

 Have a think about this one,.. It's a loverly summer day to have a tootle out somewhere, and both the rider and pilly are 'good' at what they do, wether it is riding or hanging on.  They stop somewhere, and because it's warm/hot they have a drink or maybe two, whatever.  Does the pillion then decide not to go back with the same rider because of the drink?                                                                                                                                                                              

i would think its the Pillions responsability to decide to get on the back of someone. Once on it is the riders responsability to lookafter the person in there charge.   As for drinking If I was on the back of someone and they were going to have a drink. I would ask them not to and if they insisted I would find another way home. May go as far as calling the cops after telling them that I would if they were incapable of riding or driving.   May not make me popular but cant condone Drink Driving                                                                                                                                                                             

The relationship between rider and pilly is a two-way system of friendship and trust. As such, I would look after those keys until such time as the rider is safe again. I would hope that any true friend of mine would do the same for me.                                                                                                                                                                               

if youve got a passenger in car or on a bike then you have a responceabilty to them regardless i think the drink drive penalty should be harder still if you have passengers people would probably take more notice if that were the case ! but i do believe (from experience ) that the pillian has a great efect on how the bike handles so to has to be responceable for there actions !                                                                                                                                                                             

  I reckon if I'd had a drink I may have passed me test     Seriously tho I reckon anyone who cares about their fellow man/woman wouldn't drink if they knew they were going to be riding, with or without a pillion, and any sane pillion wouldn't get on a bike knowing the rider had been drinking. Just one drink can take a person over the limit, depending on their build, if they'd had anything to eat, if they are tired etc etc   As for if a rider drank while out and pillion had to ride back then not much the pillion can do, except see if anyone, who hasn't been drinking, can give them a lift home. I'd have to weigh up the possible *dangers of finding my own way home V pillioning a rider who had been drinking   *being attacked or raped                                                                                                                                                                                

For me to be pilly i would have to trust the rider 100%, I have dun pilly but it does make me nervous as i would rather be in control. The rider does have a respsiblity to keep their pilly as safe as possible though,                                                                                                                                                                              

i never know my pilly is there, she is that good....                                                                                                                                                                             

LOL ... unless like Ian did a few times with me pilly ... he FORGOT I was there !!