Laura has just started doing her driving lessons over here in Holland, and I'm concerned about the way they are teaching her.  It's either bad standards here, a bad instructor, or I was just taught well in England.  But here's just 2 things they've taught her on her first lesson...   1)  It's OK to cross your arms over on your steering wheel if the corner is sharp "or else you wont be able to turn fast enough"!!!! 2) You don't need to use your handbrake when stopped (At traffic lights for example).   This is insane.  I know there aren't many hills here, but there are some in places... so why would they teach not to use your handbrake at lights?  How the hell will people be able to do a hill start?  I was always told also that even if the road is level, using your handbrake is good in case someone crashes into the back of you.   And I wont even start on the crossing your arms over!!! That's just dangerous, especially when moving at speed!   A friend here says he was taught the same when learning to drive in Holland, so I'm concerned about the lack of standards here.   So - what did they teach you when you were learning to drive?                                                                                                                                                                             

My instructor knew all the light timings at every junction in Hull, (we blew away a fast car once, as he knew the bloke was a knob  behind the wheel, reving it to try to intimidate me , with his phnumaticley enhanced seat cover beside him laughing at me ) god i bet he was really embaressed when this 17yo kid in a driving school Metro blew him away, all the way to the next lights. Instuctor congratulated me but told me not to do it again (especialy on my test lol). Why arn't rally starts a part of the test????

1 - in a car without power steering, it may be necessary when attempting a low speed manouever,  in a tight turn..   2 - handbrake on, no ifs,no buts. Too easy to roll back.                                                                                                                                                                             

yep i agree to cross ur arms, if for example you're reverse parking or taking a sharp turn in a supermarket car part - but we're talking here about moving at speed (Or so Laura tells me over the fone).   Now they all think I'm wrong for telling them not to cross their arms etc, jesus.                                                                                                                                                                             

Found this which was quite interesting:   http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=109&i=8194   I had heard that instructors were recommending a 9-3 hand position on the wheel rather than a 10-2 due to possible airbag deployment, but the last paragraph in the above article comments:   One last word about steering, and this concerns the steering wheel itself.  Most modern cars these days have a drivers’ airbag fitted and that airbag is contained within the steering wheel centre and that airbag has a detonator and an explosive charge within its system, also contained within the steering wheel hub.  The whole thing is an unexploded bomb and if  it goes off, and that airbag deploys when your arms are across the steering wheel centre, it will break your bones as if they were twigs – instantly!  I have a colleague who got one arm in the way of one and even though it happened eight years ago he is still not recovered from the injury, and probably never will.  At least he is alive, that he can thank the airbag for.                                                                                                                                                                               

thanks for finding that TeeCee!  Will certainly help my argument later when I try to defend common-sense (Currently we've been arguing it for weeks, and it's just me against a load of Dutchies, Laura who can't drive, and now her new instructor! Dammit)

I was taught that I really don't belong behind the wheel of a car!!!                                                                                                                                                                             

lol @ ttaskmaster!   No probs Matt - hope it helps!!   (Maybe suggest a different instructor too.... )                                                                                                                                                                             

Every test I have ever trained for (car,bike,7.5 ton,class 2 , class ! police persuit,evasive and advanced track) did not recommend crossing the arms for several reasons, One of which was lazy driving, one is that if anything happens it takes the brain less time to calculate which direction to steer if you use the "packet of crisps" method (ie shuffling the wheel through your hands)   The only exception was reversing in a car/HGV where you may need to remove the seatbelt and lean out the window/look over the back seats.   In all tests crossing the hands repeatedly was a test failure that constituted "not being in control"   Now I am a professional test driver and we are expressly told not to cross our arms unless recovering from a spin where very fast wheel correction is needed.   Irrellivant to me as in a spin you will find me in the back seat with a bible!   In conclusion Matt I think you have a bad instructor....I know you're a bit more laid back there but that won't teach her nothing!                                                                                                                                                                             

I took a driving test in Florida in 1985... I passed, but the examiner criticised me for passing the wheel through my hands, saying I ought to have put my hand in the crook of the steering wheel and spun it one-handed!                                                                                                                                                                              

Thanks very much.  I will be quizzing laura about precisely what the instructor has said, but it seems that my other Dutch friends were taught the same thing by different instructors - which is why I'm concerned. I'm also worried that Laura thinks this kind of practice is normal and safe, because she's being told by people (including an authorative figure) that it's fine to cross your arms/not use your handbrake.   She can't change because her work are paying for it with a certain instructor.  I'd teach her myself, but it doesn't work like that here and you HAVE to go through a qualified instructor (Oh, and you can't go for your test when you feel ready - only when your instructor feels you're ready lol, how backwards is that? They can con you out of money for ages)                                                                                                                                                                             

lol @ wannabe, that's Americans for you.  We in the real world know better eh?                                                                                                                                                                               

When I learnt to drive in the late 70s, my instructor told me he'd been on a Churchill scholarship to the US to see how driving was taught out there. His experience was exactly the same as Wannabee's, ie a failure on occasions to cross hands would actually be a test failure, as would also be 'shuffling' the wheel round in  approved British fashion. Obvious American cars of the era had far different steering ratios that ours, with a lot more turns from lock to lock. But now Euro/Jap cars are pretty common out there, I'd wondered if the advice still holds about crossing hands. As far as Dutch hill starts are concerned, you'd have to explain to a great many Dutchmen exactly what a hill is, first!                                                                                                                                                                               

American cars also have the ability to squeal their tyres when cornering hard on dirt or grass - watch any American car chase made in the 80s!                                                                                                                                                                             

haha i was thinking that, but down in the province of Limburg there are many (large) hills and mountains.  Maastricht area for example. I was taught in England that it was a fail to not use your handbrake when stopped, because of the time taken from moving your foot from brake to accellerator can cause you to roll back and crash into someone.  Even a road that appears level many not be.                                                                                                                                                                             

I should emphasise that she specifically criticised my failure to employ the crook of the wheel technique on slow manoeuvres... e.g. 3 point turn... which, if memory serves me right, is called a turnabout in the States... I don't think they mind how many points you make on the turn   I think my pass certificate was nearly taken away from me for being a facetious know-it-all 17 year old, explaining in detail about how English driving instruction was FAR superior and precisely WHY I employed the feeding the wheel through my hands technique! lol                                                                                                                                                                                 

I REALLY hope the correct use of handbrake is still being taught as it is one of my pethates being behind another car at a traffic light who just leave their foot on the brake and I have their high visibility brake light glaring in my eyes, especially at night!   (apologies for being Mr Moany today... )   Just out of interest, Matt, is she learning in an automatic?                                                                                                                                                                               

no it's a manual drive.  My friend was taking her for lessons first (On the quiet cos its not allowed here), and teaching her to cross hands and not use handbrake etc... so i was really pee'd off about it and said he isn't to give her another lesson.  So she gets a "real" instructor, who is just as bad!

Ah, ok.. I had just noted a reluctance amongst Auto drivers to take it out of drive and use the handbrake, especially with a pedal operated handbrake. Was wondering if she was just told to shift into Park (which activates the brake). Irrelevant though if she is using a manual box... DEFINITELY handbrake time!!                                                                                                                                                                             

Crossing hands on a steering wheel wss a no no. both when taking my car and bus test.   Using handbrake was a yes when at junctions, gradients, traffic lights & zebra crossings or in the case of the bus, stopped at bus stops.   The DSA over here keeps changing what it takes to pass the test, and the Highway code has subtlety changed over the years as well