I have read in a few forums about various different problems with tyres and what pressures to use etc..... For wet, dry.... What is the best tyres etc but usually it is from a person who has used a certain tyre and finds it good ( myself I do prefer the BT-23 a sports touring tyre with I must say has had good reports).. My question is do we have anyone who actually is in the business or is an expert on the subject who can actually recommend certain tyres as diff end bikes do tend to suit certain tyres..power weight etc...use Any takers to pass on their knowledge...I only ask as after a recent rear end slide out which left me with fractured ribs...I can't help thinking maybe it could have been avoided with better tyres (different bike from the one with the BT-23's) or knowledge of pressures etc...how warm the tyres are is irrelevant in my case as I had just left the house and was turning a corner at slow speed.?......

Your tyre pressure should be as per the book you could go and get a perfect set up useing your unladen wight of the bike + your wight with bike kit on and then working out your psi from that but it will be within a pound or so of manufactures setting. as for the rubber if you like it you use it lol. I think best on my harley is avon storm rear and viper I think on the front on the Kwak it bridgestones front and rear                                                                                                                                                                              

Do we have an expert on the site who knows the science...for instance I used to use bt20's on the VFR but the front end was not good, the BT23's are way better.... But from what I read it is more suited to that type of tyre with weight power etc...we all know what we use from experience or our friends swear by..... I just wonder if their is someone in the trade or in the bike business who is current on this sort of thing...the tyre we get on a new bike isn't always the best for the job...

Going by the forums one persons view on tyres won't be someone elses-the Blackbird forum I'm on is a good example.Mine is on Michelin Road Pilot 3's,seem great to me,seems those with BT23'S think they're great,same for Pirelli,Avon etc,one guy raved about Maxxis,I thought they were cheapo budget things?
My car runs on cheap part worns and has done for the last 70k miles,never had a problem despite all the prophets of doom! The Michelins on the back were put on 35000 miles ago,cost £40 for the pair and are still well legal....
As jtb says think we need a trade expert to give a scientific answer.

the thing is even peeps in "the business" will have personal opinions and may not give the best info??   a bike shp i had my first harley service done at suggested to me recently to put Dunlop Qualifiers on my bike  .... now even by the name of those tyres i thought hang on a jiffyyy squiffy mr... and when i looked on tinterweb it goes on about how they are brill on corners etc... not sure they are exactly what i was looking for!!!   if you look on a specific website... ie bridgstone website.... or avon website.... or any they all categorise their own tyres on there so you can see what is suggested for your type of bike and then i guess find what suits your personal choice within those suggestions? does that kinda of answer ya question johnny or ya still want a professional to tell ya?   even bike racers use diff tyres if given the choice so there is no blanket "one fits all" if given choice, and you be suprised how much other peeps opinions and experience holds when they have a similar bike....   i guess we all ride diff and may want diff things from our tyres so maybe just gather other peeps opinions?   the tyres that came on my bike are amazing and have never given me any reason to want to change em ever..... bt i know i would go for avon if not these   anyhow il shush now incase the above aint what you are after at all hahahahaha   good luck wi your tyre quest                                                                                                                                                                              

Why dont we ask the major manufactures for there opinion's on tyres for say 6 bikes give them all the same info and see what comes back. something like We are planning a road trip to ? the bikes that are going are abcdef full luggage and wight with rider and all kit will be ? can you recommend Tyre and what Pressure to run and see what we get back .                                                                                                                                                                             

trouble is each manufactuer is going to tell you theres is best.... and the information they give you on the best ones for your bikes is on their websites.... along with info about tyre compuond make up etc.... i dont really see what different,. and totally impartial, info a "professional" can give you.  Its like asking which is the best helmet to wear aint it? or am i missing the point here lol   but it is johnnytb's post so it aint really up to me pmsl   if i could learn to keep me opinions to meself i would be in much less bother ya know.......... bt then i wouldnt be suzi                                                                                                                                                                               

how warm the tyres are is irrelevant in my case as I had just left the house and was turning a corner at slow speed.?......   or maybe not... cold day (I presume so as it was recently!), cold/mucky road surface, cold tyres - and a familiar corner, so maybe if you took it at the speed you would normally then the conditions were relevant?   I dont believe that there are any 'bad' tyres now days, but some do seem to suit certain bikes, but not, i believe, to the extent that using one brand over another will make you fall off... the differences really only show up if you are pushing the performance of the bike/tyre..    tyre pressures are manufacturers recommendations rather than an absolute as they cant cater for every combination of rider, weights and conditions.. personally I tend to set mine at the 'with pillion' reccomendation, although TBH theres normally only a couple of PSI difference anyway.. somewhere on the interweb I saw a technique for determining the best pressures for your riding style.. it involved measuring when cold, riding normally and see how much they'd changed once warm.. i'll see if i can find it...   the above are just my ramblings.. no actual knowledge involved or implied                                                                                                                                                                              

bt we like your ramblings neil                                                                                                                                                                              

ok well Kawasaki use bridgestones as standard and until recently I always used bridgestones on my kwaks - but I recently went to Avon storms and I like them. I have a mate who races also on avons - hes running 28 psi fronts and 32 rears.....for the road im using 38 fronts and 42 rears. when the weather is warm ( yeah right!) I run 34 and 38 from cold...but you could ask 500 people this question and get 500 different answers so that's my input but suspect ur none the wiser!

I use avon storm 2 ultras on my z750.The original dunlop qualifiers didnt give me the same confidence when cornering that I get with the avons.Also get great mileage with the avons. Usually have them at 42 rear,36 front                                                                                                                                                                             

Just something to remember if your have a bad off and your bike is inspected by the police a report will go to your insures with the tyre psi and if over or under inflated and can lead to it being blamed on you for incorrect psi and a reduced payment 

  Moved from General forum                                                                                                                                                                             

Well ~ Funny enough.. i was reading my magazine Road which comes from Mag to members and guess what a two page article is on???.....   yup ~ all about tyres and how to translate the abbreviations which tell you    size and construction   load and speed ie; weight capacity, and speed capability ~(tables are available from manufacturers showing the depreciation of load capacity as speed increases)   inflation ~ whether tubless or tube is required   tyre age ~ tyres have approximate reaslitic age span of 10 yrs   materials used ie material types for tread and sidewall ie, tread = 1 ply steel - 1 ply rayon - 1 ply nylon and sidewall = 2 ply nylon   tyre model   manufacturer and model type   whether radial tyre   manufacturing : E4 is an example of e-marking which is a legal requirement for all tyres sold in Europe.  it s confirmation that the manufacturer has complied with all the sizing and performance measures necessary for the product to fit your machine.  irrespective of where in the world tyres are made, tyres must comply with the European standards   etc ~ its quite a good article dunno if this is the sort of thing you are looking for?  Ask a mate who is MAG (motorcycle action group) if you can borrow their March/April Road magazine and its page 30   may not be what you are after but its defo interesting info anyhooo tho i thought                                                                                                                                                                                

I prefer round and black.
I run one at the front and one at the back.
Pressure wise I blow then up till start to feel dizzy and see flashing lights...

But it's all a matter of personal opinion.

Or medication.                                                                                                                                                                             

as in another thread i have just fitted a BT-023 to the front of my Pan and am very very pleased with it.

i mostly get my tyres from these bods good prices especially if you
can fit em yourself.

http://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?dsco=110&cart_id=61099465.110.3611&m_s=1&s_p=Motorbike_Tyres

and on just about all the tyres listed they have some kind of a write up/rating system might be worth a read?

It's all good valid points...it just I am a very analytical person...I always look for a reason for things.....I have ridden in all weathers .. Hell the conditions on that day were not bad..and as far as I remember dry or dry for a cold winter day no ice that I could see.....I had just ridden my trusted VFR for 20 miles on back roads no problem as I have over 3-4 years with the VFR ...BUT. My newish bike 1300s out the garage down the road first junction slow and down ...now a biker at the bus stoop said I wasn't accelerating hard or anything..he thinks sand and gravel ..not much from council salting combined with a small polished grating...and police too but..lit had been road swept by the time I was able to look at...just can't get my head around it... And it has dented my confidence....I always worried about the front end giving way at speed but for this to happen is really knocked me after nearly 30 years of biking...I have had a couple of offs but I could always determine why.... This has me really bothered....

Dry road + Dry sand/grit +  Polished steel grating  = Bike on floor and you on your ass. The sand will be like riding on ball bearing as soon as your wheel hit the grating with the sand there would have been no friction between the wheel and road surface.
                                                                                                                                                                             

Here is a post GreasyTony put on one of my threads, i know it's not what your asking for but it makes interesting reading, if Tony still on here he may be able to tell you what you need to know.

GreasyTony
Click for GreasyTony's profile

In: Camberley
Posts: 1327
0% Karma0% Karma

Right, I've been reading this since the opening post & thought 'I'm not getting drawn into this'
Guess what ?? - - - I failed.

Everything below is FACT,

Any arguments, take it up with the people who produce these items.
You know, them that have spent tens of thousands of man hours, tens of millions of euro's, pounds yen or Dollars on R&D to develop the tyres.
Swas, JJ900, Ian, Etc Spot on ..



Prior to moulding, m/c tyres used to be sprayed with a solution. This would help the rubber flow during the curing process and reduce defects.
This solution could also make the tyre slippery when new. Avon now uses water based solution or in many cases, no solution at all. Water based solution dissolves into the rubber and will not have any effect on a new tyres grip.
Avon m/c tyres do not now need scrubbing in due to moulding solution. This may not always be the case with other manufacturer's tyres but many are reducing or eliminating this solution, often refered to as tyre dope (not the sort you smoke!).
However, all tyres should still be scrubbed in. If too much power or load is put through a new tyre, large tears can appear on the tyre's tread surface. This is called low frequency graining. These tears will remain larger than normal and the tyres grip and mileage will suffer. If the tyre is scrubbed in properly, these tears will be much finer and mileage and grip will be optimised (high frequency graining). This same effect can happen if too much throttle is used when the tyre is cold. This is called cold graining i.e. the tyre surface will tear up as the compound is trying to grip before it has reached its optimum operating temperature.

Putting new tyres through a heat cycle also helps. In simple terms this basically breaks down the tyre at a molecular level and lets all the molecular strings reform in a more neutral state. This eliminates soft and hard areas of the tyre, effectively conditioning it.

Best regards,
Peter J McNally
M/C Technical Product Manager
01225 357753
www.avonmotorcycle.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Solutions are often used on tyres during the curing process. This solution helps rubber flow and reduces defects. It is designed to blend
in with the rubber. However, it can reduce grip if applied in large amounts. Most manufacturers have eliminated the use of this solution
however.
In simple terms, the surface of a tyre needs to be broken to help the tyre grip. This is where running in tyres is important. If power is
applied too early i.e. before the tyre has warmed up, large tears can appear on the tread surface, this is called cold tearing and reduces the
mileage of the tyre.
Tyres can be 'scrubbed' in wet conditions but it takes much longer and is not advisable due to the initial reduced grip.
When tyres are first run, many of the long chain molecules break down, when the tyre cools, the molecules reform in a more uniform way, the
tyre then runs cooler and is less likely to over heat.

Our official line at Avon is - When new m/c tyres are fitted, they should not be subjected to maximum power until a reasonable 'running in'
distance has been covered. 100 dry miles (160km) is the recommended minimum (discount any wet miles covered).

Best regards,
Peter J McNally
M/C Technical Product Manager, Avon Tyres
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Running tyres in
The best way to scrub tyres in is to simply get out and ride on them.

For the first mile or so keep the bike as upright as possible. This will give you a good area within the central portion of the tread surface that
is scrubbed-in.
From here you want to increase your lean angle a little at a time, always keeping a portion of the scrubbed-in tread in contact with the road as you
scrub-in a fresh part, leaning further and getting ever closer to the tread's edge as the miles go by. Make sure this is done on both sides of
the tyre.
One mistake that a thankfully small amount of riders make is when leaving the dealer's premises within the first few metres of having the tyre
fitted. When turning onto the road some riders lean the bike more than they should and then accelerate into the traffic, causing the new tyre to slide
or spin up, dumping them in the road.
( ie the riders being Stella Actatwat .. GT )
During the scrubbing-in process, tyres should not be subjected to maximum power, sudden acceleration and braking, or abrupt and/or hard cornering
until a reasonable running-in distance of approximately 100 miles has been covered. This will permit the rider to become accustomed to the feel of the
new tyres or tyre combination and to gradually scuff the tyre's surface from edge to edge in order to achieve optimum road grip.
The surface of the tyre can actually be scrubbed-in in less distance than 100 miles but this doesn't mean that the tyre is fully run-in because the
tyre also needs to fully seat itself on the rim - a process not completed simply by the fitting of the tyre. The seating of the tyre's bead on the
rim is separate to the scrubbing-in process. It takes longer and this is one of the reasons tyre manufacturers state that new tyres should be run-in
for 100 miles.
After 100 miles have been completed the tyres should be left to cool for at least one hour and the inflation pressures checked for any leaks that may
have occurred during the running-in period.
Because water acts as a lubricant, in the wet the scrubbing-in process can take two or three times as long. This is not helped by the fact that road
riders rarely lean more than 28-30 degrees in the wet, meaning that the tyre will not be scrubbed-in from edge to edge. As you would anyway in the
rain, extra caution with acceleration, braking and cornering should be taken. Leave the scrubbing in of the tyre's edges until the roads have
dried out.

Heat cycles
A tyre's heat cycle refers to the process of heating a cold tyre up and letting it cool back down again. Cold to hot to cold again equals one heat
cycle. Heat cycles appear to be a hot topic (sorry) at the moment, but for road riders on road tyres there is no reason to be concerned about heat cycles
reducing a tyre's life or performance.

Road tyres, even those designed for occasional track day use have many, many heat cycles designed into them. After all, why would tyre
manufacturers design a road tyre that exceeds its designed number of heat cycles when only half worn? Word would soon circulate that a certain tyre's performance degrades rapidly before it has worn out and that tyre's sales would plummet.

However, there are tyres that don't have loads of heat cycles designed into them.
Race tyres are designed to be used once - one heat cycle. If that surprises you it really shouldn't.
Nobody said racing was compulsory and nobody said racing was cheap and race tyres are designed to give maximum performance for one race.
A little like a crash helmet, where, when it's done it's job of saving your life you throw it away, a race tyre has given its all in the race and its performance will now reduce the more you use it.
The reality is that race tyres will give pretty good performance for another one or two more races, but after this they really are junk.
Ever wonder why tyre manufacturers advise riders not to buy second-hand race tyres? It's not a global ploy to get you to buy new tyres. It
genuinely is because the tyre's performance will be reduced. After all, ask yourself why would a racer be selling a perfectly good tyre?

I hope that helps.
All the best
Bryn Phillips
Product Support Manager, Motorcycle
Dunlop Tyres UK Ltd



Brake pad run in.
The ridges , or peaks .....imagine a snow capped mountain.....thats what new pads are rubbing against at first (the snow at the top)....thats all you are using to stop with.....until they bed in and gradually more of the said mountain is in contact with the pads until you reach the valleys below.....now you have the most contact you can have, and more than new discs and pads have
Must tell Ron Dennis, Oops, Martin Whitmarsh now, to fit scored & grooved discs to his McLarens.
Mungy, whoever told you that wants their bumps felt mate.
Apply these strategies to that statement !!!
Coefficient of friction,
Temperature differential,
Structural integrity,
Heat treatment,
Minimum thickness,
Adhesion properties .. . (Friction material to backing plate)
Love from GT x Geek

Very good Bill....fountain of good information there....didn't know about the change in the Avons....