I wonder how many bikers are out in afgan and iraq?

Are the soldiers serving there, heroes?

What i mean is, I served in N.I. during the bobby sands hunger strike and in the Falkands and i didn't think of myself as a hero.  Nor did the media et al clamour on about us 'heroes'.

Or is it just an overused word, a catchy word for a certain charity which raises funds for injured soldiers?

Does anyone else think its disgraceful that we have a 'charity' to help our 'heroes'?

Is it right and proper for me to ask these questions in a free and democratic society?

wes pu hal                                                                                                                                                                              

Yup good question..   Let's just say when succesive governments have left the country skint and immigration has rose to an almighty high and emptied the coffers even more, they spend billions of our money to bail the useless bankers out of the sh!t, someone has got to help injured/disabled soldiers, sailors, airmen, serving their country(in Iraq/Afghanistan!?) and clearly the government of the day doesn't give a shit, so they put them to the public as heroes needing help, the public don't seem to realise it's the job of the country to take care of them and dig into their own pockets to help....My brother served 3 tours of N.I at the height of it all(ditches in Derry through the night!)and never put himself across as a hero. The same can be said of todays armed forces, it's the govt and press that hail them as heroes, they do not put themselves up for this accolade. As it was in your day *just doing the job I'm trained for mate* is what they'd say.   Having said that I would also say that anyone joining H.M Forces knowing what they could and most probably would be facing is indeed comitting a heroic act.   *edit* Not forgetting of course we have in fact been supporting our troops for years not just 'a certain charity' but we've bought poppies for years to help injured and ex servicemen.                                                                                                                                                                             

What i find disgusting is that our government pays for drug addicts and alchoholics to sit on their backsides while we have to have a charity to help our wounded soldiers.   I lost my cousin last year on active duty and he would never have called himself a hero, he was doing a job he loved.                                                                                                                                                                             

There's A whole raft of things our government DOESN'T pay for that are reliant on charity! but spouting on forums isn't gonna change that....unfortunately!                                                                                                                                                                              

Kwakgirl-spouting?  isnt a forum a medium for the expression of ideas and opinions?  And who said i was trying to change anything?

I didn't try to make people think like this or that, or to agree with me or disagree, i was just asking the quesions.                                                                                                                                                                             

Are the soldiers serving there, heroes?   I reckon the government is pretty happy going along with supporting notion of the armed forces as heroes by the media and charities.....anything that helps boost morale and makes those in the services feel valued....at a time when there could be up to 11,000 compulsory redundancies   Maybe I'm a tad jaded and cynical, but I assume the redundancies will be with those with skills & experience....you know, the well paid ones??? Dunno, might be wrong   Promoting the idea of service personnel as heroes helps maintain the constant supply of new recruits who cost a lot less   I disagree about the point of spouting on forums....forums are an excellent place to exchange ideas, share information...and change can happen if ordinary people refuse to shut up and won't accept apathy                                                                                                                                                                             

Hurrah for Minnie.

The troops who are out there deserve our support and the ones who don't come back deserve our greatest respect and reverence for their sacrifice.

Some folks it seems do not want to have to consider important issues on the forums, but there are other threads within the forums for those who prefer, such as the jokes and silly things thread.

And as Minnie says " change can happen if ordinary people refuse to shut up and won't accept apathy"                                                                                                                                                                              

  As most folk on here know, my son 'Shadz' is a serving biker, he's in the Royal Navy. He's been lucky so far, not drafted to a war zone, but it's always a possibility.   To be honest I don't know what a hero is, don't people do extraordinary things to help others, or save lives etc, all in a days work, and sometimes just a member of public doing something spontaneously in an emergency? Wouldn't all folk, who care for their fellow man, do the same?     (I really hate it when folk say 'worse things happen at sea')                                                                                                                                                                               

  @Kwakgirl.....Public forums are great for expressing and sharing opinions and ideas on important issues, but I do agree with you that spouting on forums does very little if people want to change things. Get out there and act if change is wanted..... :)                                                                                                                                                                             

Old Red your spot on.   Im serving and done numerous tours in NI(during the troubles and still!) Ive done both Iraq and Afghanners, again numerous tours. They are all completely different theatres of operations and offered completely different threat levels. (If you include the Falklands as mentioned, a short one off war, yes it was pretty shit for the ones that were there).   Troops are repeatedly returning to the same theatre again and again (some completing in excess of 7 tours in the same theatre). What you need to consider is that these guys have seen some horrific things/situations, lost comrades/close friends. But they are made to return with those memories on subsequent tours and I know that in the back of their minds day in day out is; if/when will it be me.   We as serving soldiers, sailors, airmen do not under any circumstances consider ourselves heroes. However we are humbled that the general public consider us to be.   I believe it was the media that coined the phrase hero to todays service personnel not the Gov, they just jumped on the bandwagon as per norm.                                                                                                                                                                                

I served 22 years and a day in the Royal Marines and to coin a movie phrase I never thought of myself as a hero but I served with a great many..... And as bomb doctor says guys are getting back to back tours now....it looks on paper like they are rotating units around but what they don't tell you in the press is that due to so many injuries, courses and short numbers guys are drafted from a returning unit to a unit that is due to go back out to the Ganners....it is the same guys ...I know guys who are 5, 6 tours now it's ridiculous that's equivalent to 3 years on operational duty in Afghan.....some of these guys are veterans of Iraq and N.Ireland...... It's a Post Trumatic time bomb waiting to happen... I am proud of our boys and girls but angry as hell with the way they are funded and treated..... Even in retirement they have started fucking around with pensions as well.... The covenant is not there! I see what these young guys have to do now, they pass from training no chance to learn there trade craft and sent out to the bad lands carrying an individual kit load that many civilians would not be able to lift of the ground let alone fight in on a daily basis.....I for one think they are all heroes willingly going out putting their lives on the line....I doubt any politician would have the balls for it.....