people have to stick together on this on though or before you know it it will be upon us!
                                                                                                                                                                             

Also hi-vis as is, is nearing useless it is far too over used and the human eye is accustomed to it, try this simple test next time you pass a large construction site bet you don't notice all the hi-vis wearers but you will see the one who isn't.

Just assume when out on the bike that everyone around you is out to kill you then wear black and ride a black bike and get past the blind fuckers pdq before they see you!

I've had dosey twits that haven't seen a bright yellow artic so you've got no chance on a bike!

its should be up to individual riders to chouse what they wear  helmets  boots gloves of full leathers    or hi vis  car drivers should have the choice to   seatbelt or not   i dont think the government should have the right to empose on others                                                                                                                                                                              

Ireland too

http://www.magireland.org/2011/campaigns/hiviz/hivizbackground/

BTW Was this supposed to be a piss take

"we could go into a Monty python sketch here. you say argument I am having an intellectual discussion but that seems to be lost in the face book world we live in. It used to be an MTV world but times and technology have moved on. Unfortunately the motorcycling community has not and still think that any negativity toward motorcycling is a bigger insult than a yo mama."

ROFL 

                                                                                                                                                                             

I would like to add my 2p worth and car driver, a non bike rider but a pilly when ever I can get the chance.   Please don't shot me down in flames for my opinion.   I really like the car that I drive however, it does have a major blind spot on the A frame. If I wasn't interested in biking and mix with people from the biking community etc, I would never have considered doing the 'Save a life look'..      Now, when I am driving, I resemble a meercat because I am aware of the weakness of my cars visibility areas.   Would a biker wearing a hi-viz jacket make it easier for me to see them...the answer has to be no. If a biker is in that blind spot, its down to me as a car driver to use my attention to what's around me to ensure they have a safe passage.                                                                                                                                                                                 

Well said Bandit lover,   If only every car driver had this point of view, life would be soooo much better on the roads for us lot,   One thing i do notice is cars with "bike" related stickers on the back it means one thing to me as a biker they are aware of me, and will not do something stupid   I have a couple on the back of my car, and i hope bikers travelling behind me notice these and realise i'm a biker in a car, so i am more likely to be aware of them on the road,   But it's funny cos' although i pull over to the left to give free passage to bikes behind i hardly ever get a thank you, where as i always thank a car for pulling over to let me past, that way the next time they encounter a bike the're more likely to give them room rather than not,   Well thats my thinking rightly or wrongly                                                                                                                                                                              

Blade_rider I need to get some of those stickers. In addition to being a biker, I drive a car but most times I am in my van which is unfortunately white. I try to drive my van/car as if I were on a bike. For instance life savers, I will carry out more than would be required for a car test. Good observation has got to be the key ingredient for safer driving/riding. I have noticed on a few occasions, when pulling over to let a rider through, they have slightly raised their little finger. I have taken this as a thank you. At high motorway speeds they probably didn't want to take any more of their hand off the grip. A motorist who is not a rider probably will no notice the acknowledgment. When I am in my van I prefer the rider to be in front where I can see them (my van has no rear windows).                                                                                                                                                                              

Hi David,   The stickers to which i refer are quite simply an MCN sticker, an Arai one and a Performance Bikes one, put in a promenant place on the back of me motor, which i hope marks me out as a biker stuck in his car on any perticular day,                                                                                                                                                                             

Thanks for that Blade-rider   I thought they were special stickers. I'll stick something suitable on the van.                                                                                                                                                                             

I have seen a few of these about,

http://shop.dft.gov.uk/thinkshop/product.aspx?ProductID=04cc108e-573c-43b8-bb46-21b1d27294d8

                                                                                                                                                                             

good input from the people who have given the car driver point of view - and I enjoy driving cars myself (also drive ambulances around between stations).   The only problem though, when it really gets down to it, is who is going to get hurt, and generally, it isn't the person sat in the tin box.   The think biker campaign as well is flawed for this reason.   If you go hunting with someone with a rifle, you don't step infront of the barrel in the hope that they may have seen you - with all their best intentions if they aren't looking, or expecting you to be there then you will have a big problem.   never assume, and always give yourself an escape route                                                                                                                                                                             

Gotta agree with you on that tcat, the only people that are going to notice those stickers are other bikers, who will be looking out for bikes anyway,

I'm not anti dayglo, if you want to wear it, do it, just do not try and force your  ideas onto me,

and seeing as somebody posted earlier that they got knocked off wearing a dayglo vest,
i  think i will carry on not stepping in front of the gun barrel, therfore i will not need my bullet proof vest   

                                                                                                                                                                             

I've been doing lifesavers in cars for years and I don't think I have owned a car that did not have a blind spot between the interior mirror and door mirrors.   This blind spot can not only miss a by comparison smaller bike, but can miss a car too if its just in the right (or wrong!) position.   I have biker stickers on the back of my car. (A freebie that was kindly advertised on BM last year) I know when I'm on the bike and see one on a car I'm slightly reassured that someone is looking out that little bit extra for bikes and by definition other road users too! I would not relax enough though to not have an escape route in mind as stated previously.                                                                                                                                                                             

One very important bit of advise my father gave me many, many years ago, he rode when he was younger too,   Which was,   Treat everyone else on the road like an idiot, and ride/drive accordinly, and your stay alive much longer,   So thanks dad your advice worked, after almost 35-odd years riding or driving either bicycles, motorcycles, cars, vans, lorries, etc, i'm still here to type this (touching wood here), and i've hardly been one to ride/drive like miss daisy, i have also read many books on better driving done a bit of saloon car racing etc, so perhaps i'm better placed than some, but i do know of mates over the years who sadly aren't still here, so i must be doing something right methinks.                                                                                                                                                                              

I once read a book, I think it was called
"The Police method of driving"
At the end of the book it stated that, "if all the rules followed they should never have a RTA". Some of the procedures are now taught to drivers and riders. At the time they were not. I saw the logic in their final statement, but have had many a heated discussion over the years.
What they did not allow for was, unpredictable idiots.
For instance, a friend of mine Mike Wolfie died while on the motorway. A people carrier in the other carriageway was involved in a collision, the vehicle took to the air and landed upside down on top of his range rover and flattened it. Wolfie was a brilliant driver and one of the top guys in the AWDC British off road championship at that time. He was transporting his racer back from a race. God rest his sole. This incident could not be avoided from his point of view.
I agree that survival is about thinking everyone else is an idiot. Please don't take it personally, because from everybody else's point of view I am one of the idiots!
Sorry for drifting off the original topic.
                                                                                                                                                                             

Yep David, obviously not everone on the road is an idiot, but doing some defensive riding/ driving like they are is the way to stay safer, and unforseen events like what happended to your mate are terrible,   I can't remember the guys name now, perhaps it was even your mate Wolfie but it was on the BBC news some time ago that there was a rally driver who got killed on a motorway M1 i think several years ago in a multiply pileup, now there was a bloke who spent his life driving down narrow roads at full pelt, and he got killed by some unforseen event, on the drive home, its just unbelieveable !!! how these things happen,   But like you say there are a lot of unpredicable drivers who simply have no concept of how to... (I was going to say drive) but what i really mean is control the car their in, which is a very scary sight to see at times indeed,   Sadly i see it every day, a lot of people behind the wheel of a car can't even manage to turn a left corner and hold a tight line around that corner the times i've seen drivers turn left and drift into the right hand side of the road is simply staggering, the standard of driving in this country has dropped so much over the last few years it's rediculous,   Perhaps as people who have an interest in bikes/cars we are as a community better off, and riding bikes makes us better drivers, but generally the ability of a lot of car drivers sucks,   It's quite funny cos' a few days ago i had to attend a speed awareness course, and the guy running it actually said he thought that the standard of driving in the UK was better than the continent, well i had to disagree with this, having driven quite extensivily in France (mainly) it always appalls me when i get back just how undisciplined drivers are in the UK compared to the continent,   Perhaps thats just me though                                                                                                                                                                              

Blade_rider  I agree with you on the drop in the UK driving standards. I t was at one time the opposite. The 1st time I drove in France was 1972. Went down to Biarritz and it was appalling. Many a time I was overtaken on blind bends on two lane roads with no regard for what might be coming from the other direction. At that time the French roads had more deaths per mile than any other western European country. It’s not like that anymore. More recently I have driven to Germany for my work via France, Belgium, Holland and Into Germany. The 1st thing I noticed was the vast improvement in driving standards. Lane discipline, speed limits in particular are all now pretty good, even the truck drivers behave themselves. I will also add that in 400 miles I only came across 3 speed cameras. From London to Dover there are roughly 20 cameras, so there is another message there, another one of my beefs.
                                                                                                                                                                             

David,
Yes mate don't know if your aware that the french put speed cameras in wheelie bins etc, thery are perticually sneeky                                                                                                                                                                             

Blade_rider. At least the French are getting it half right by putting the cameras in wheelie bins. It would be ideal without any holes in the bin! Fortunately I am no longer much of a one for speeding.                                                                                                                                                                             

Ok... my 2p worth after reading all of this   1. no you shouldn't be forced into wearing a dayglo or any safety clothing (however if you are dumb enough to go out in sandals and shorts then it's your own fault, maybe a vid showing learner bikers of the state of your skin after a slide down the tarmac wearing such items of clothing would put them off?)   2. i think all learner drivers should spend a day being made aware of motorcycles, whether this be by video or by sitting them on one. Yes 99% of motorcyclists do lookout for bikes when they are in their car, usually because you had your lifesaver drilled into you! so you do it regardless (even if you're a passenger in a car)   3. Get a Think Bike Sticker for your car/van/lorry they are free and might just save a life if the numpty in the car behind can actually read!   http://shop.dft.gov.uk/THINKShop/Product.aspx?ProductID...b1d27294d8