A point Ian & I noticed yesterday ...   We had to go to the DVLA to tax my car (I could not find the log book & the reminder was sent to my old address so I didnt get it)   Whilst waiting outside there was a sign hung in the door stating that helmets must be removed before entering ... now if DVLA dont want people with helmets on in there ... are you going to argue well I am not going to pay my car/bike tax unless I can do so with my helmet on ???                                                                                                                                                                              

Slightly different there Shell, if your going to tax a vehicle then you are likely to be there a while. Buying fuel is a quick process and one where taking gloves off then helmet and then putting everything back on again will take longer to do than to pay. Wanabe mentioned removing helmet for CCTV reasons due to credit card fraud - what if your paying in cash? I see it as an infringemnet of my civil rights to be forced into an act I wouldn't normally do where others can get away with it on "religious grounds" especially when the "Religious grounds" dont exist as it is a personal thing that the mussy women wear them and not something ruled in their religion - so really they are wearing there fancy dress for less reason than I (or any of us) wear our helmets.

Not ever heard of women wearing a face veil doing a drive off or holding up a bank. Me personally i take it off cos its not a problem for me. Even asked others to take it off cos i can't understand a bloody thing they're saying.                                                                                                                                                                             

I don't see anyone being forced into anything TJ. I've seen people being respectfully asked to remove a helmet. At  which point you can respectfully decline and seek your petrol else where. If your asked once you've filled up then it would be up to the cashier if he wanted to push the point.                                                                                                                                                                              

As far as I know, it is a religious thing isn't it TJ? Women wear hijab in accordance with the teachings of the Koran. Some take it to the extreme and choose to wear the burqa or niqab which I think is the one that you are referring to which just leaves a slit for the eyes (sometimes covered in mesh).   I can see why you and others are upset and cite this as a reason not to remove your helmet but I would say there is a big difference between not removing headwear for a deep-founded personal and spiritual belief and not removing it just because you don't want to. But then I also see that it can be intimidating for people in a money-handling situation too...   Didn't want to get into the religious aspect as things get very complicated then.   (Have you seen Italy has  been ordered today to remove crucifixes from all their classrooms? Will be interesting to see how that one pans out...).   However, after reading today that you now have 'rights' if you believe in man-made climate change under the 2003 Religion or Belief Act it wouldn't surprise me if you could now get a ruling on some grounds or another making it illegal for someone to ask you to remove your helmet ....                                                                                                                                                                             

Weird thing in life Ricdude - people can actually hear me speak more clearly when I AM wearing my helmet...   *shrugs shoulders*                                                                                                                                                                             

For security reasons(identification)and also the intimidation factor i personally would take no offence at removing my helmet.                                                                                                                                                                              

Wanabe mentioned removing helmet for CCTV reasons due to credit card fraud - what if your paying in cash?

OK then... how about forged bank notes?

The aspect of articles of clothing worn for religious purposes is a red herring. I don't think that you can really compare not wanting to take your lid off cos it's a bit of a pain, takes a while and you think that they're pickin' on you to believing that your religion demands that you're not "seen" by males who are not your spouse/family members.

Has anybody actually seen a Muslim female walk up to a petrol station counter wearing a burqa or niqab to pay for their fuel?

Comparatively speaking, there are very, very few Moslem females who wear the complete facial covering in our country. I suspect that those who DO are extremely unlikely to (a) be driving and (b) be alone. I suspect that what I have observed personally is more usual i.e. the man they're travelling with is driving and paying for the fuel.

To complain that it is "unfair" to be asked to remove your lid on those grounds is therefore somewhat futile.

What IS a valid complaint, as I heard last night, is if the same petrol station that's asking you to remove your lid is NOT asking people dressed in hoodies, baseball caps and scarves to do the same. You can see even less of their faces. And half the time they're only young'uns trying to score 10 B&H anyway, so they're definitely low down, dirty law-breakers

Whether you like it or not, we have various pieces of legislation in this country preventing discrimination & religious "hatred". As long as that legislation stands, you're not going to persuade these garage owners to demand that these flocks of Muslim women going around gratuitously paying for fuel while keeping their faces covered, to remove their veils.

But as TC points out, it would probably be possible in today's human "rights" weird climate to actually lobby for such legislation to be put into place to protect the biker's "right" to be sold fuel while wearing helmet. It'd probably get through without a hitch, seeing as they're more used to the motorcycling lobbyists trying to get shot of the helmet law. "Oh so they want to WEAR their helmets now, do they? I say, jolly good show! Approved. Now who's for a liquid lunch?"

                                                                                                                                                                             

It could be worse and be the other way around i.e. the staff intimidating the customers.   As exc will hopefully agree, it is quite something to be filling up in South Africa with an armed guard sitting on the forecourt  with a rifle in his arms staring at you....                                                                                                                                                                             

lets face it  we all whear hoodys only they plastic lids it only to be expected that the none bike riding pubic dont understand and feel intimidated us just like the hoodys or need for speed  (nova boys ) generation do the rest of us !!                                                                                                                                                                             

You're right TeeCee,most if not all filling stations have no cameras and petrol attendants fill up for you,some places you must hand over your key's until you've paid as well...armed guards are everywhere but its also reassuring once you get used to it.

Bit different but local petrol station to me is 24 hour and after 10 pm you have to pay first, unless your female :)                                                                                                                                                                             

That's terrible! I reckon there'd be grounds to stop that - using the existing sexual discrimination legislation. That's outrageous!

My local petrol station used to let me into the shop, instead of having to go to the window to pay, when I was returning home at about 3am after a night on the doors... I once said I really appreciated them letting me in and said something about guessing it was because I was female... They said "Oh no - it's not cos of that - it's cos we know you're a bouncer, so you'd be able to sort out any trouble we get from other customers"

???!

                                                                                                                                                                             

LOL @ Lou                                                                                                                                                                                 

The fact that I'd be hard-pushed to fight my way out of a wet paper bag had little bearing on their logic                                                                                                                                                                               

WB think i shall have to ask why