I had my flip front helmet on in the open position when i was told to take it of                                                                                                                                                                             

Was in th epetrol station today when a bike pulled in, female pilly got off and went into pay whilst guy filled up, i was behind her in the q and she was asked to remove her helmet, which she did, paid then prompty turned round and started moaning to me about it !!!

I was asked to remove my helmet once I refused. I stated that it was a religious thing - (and I had already filled up with fuel). I also asked if they would ask one of those Muslim Freaks - and i am not bothered about saying that - would be asked to remove thier vails (or what ever they are called) - when they said no they wouldn't ask them I then said "Well dont bloody ask me either" I then pushed my card (Not gun, knife, or iron bar) under her nose and waited for her to take it.   Sorry I am not very PC today - they wind me up                                                                                                                                                                              

TJ and breathe lol                                                                                                                                                                             

With this thread looking like becoming a repetitive and circular argument, I hadn't intended to say any more since returning home from incommunicado, which for your information is in Essex on the Blackwater Estuary.  Since it's continuing anyway, I'll have another say.

I have every sympathy for how you feel about these jobsworths, TJ and agree with your arguments. They wind me up too. However, I think the best way to deal with them is not to get mad, but to be firm in refusing to comply and then to thank them profusely after they have reluctantly processed your transaction. That winds them up and gives you the moral high ground.

TC raised some points that should be answered. Helmet wearing while riding a motorcycle has indeed been compulsory since 1973. I don't agree with compulsion but would tend to wear a helmet most if not all of the time anyway so I don't feel that anyone should be 'punished' for it - just that it's accepted that I see no need to remove it. I won't be riding without one for the foreseeable future in spite of TC's suggestion. Full-face helmets have been the favoured wear for most riders for over 30 years and during that period motorcyclists have been buying fuel so attired, Hence, I would have expected petrol station staff to have gotten used to. So why have they suddenly become so intimidated? I can understand the concern in an isolated location late at night with few customers but in a busy location with constant queues, what do they think is going to happen? On the other hand, someone who turns up at a petrol station wearing a full-face helmet but with no bike should be regarded with suspicion. And, as I already suggested, someone who is going to blag the place is hardly going to wait their turn in a queue whether or not they are wearing a helmet.

I put it to you that the question of religious clothing that obscures the face is all part of the same issue and is not another argument for another time. They see themselves as obeying laws too although ones from a higher authority. Hence the they should be treated in the same way as motorcyclists.

Finally, it's a common tactic to disparage people with whom one disagrees, especially if one's arguments are weak, in this case by claiming they are paranoid, petty and have chips on their shoulders. It should be a case of freedom of choice on whether to accept the ruling of a petrol station, or chain of petrol stations or not. Of course, you're free to comply but don't be surprised if some call you a  surrender monkey or something similar for doing so.

I think a round of applause is in order!   If someone refuses to allow me to fill my bike up because I am wearing a helmet then fine!  I'll simply go to another station and never return.  Ever.   And if someone, as happened recently, allows me to fill my bike up but then refuses to serve me because I am wearing my helmet, then again, fine.  If they allow me to take the goods but then won't accept payment, this is not my problem.  This is not theft.   Why should I remove my helmet simply because someone asks me to?  Most armed thieves hide their weapons under jackets etc, but I've never heard of anyone asking someone to remove their jacket!   The number plate thing I can understand, this has genuine reasons.  And indeed if someone at a petrol station was to ask for my registration number before allowing me to fill up, I'd happily offer it to them.   But I'll take my helmet off when I'm ready ta.                                                                                                                                                                             

Ive only ever been asked once to take helmet off and that was before they switched pump on to fill up, I did on this occasion but i agree with geoff if they asked me to take off helmet once ive filled up then i would refuse, just as they had the right to refuse me fuel beforehand... Also brings up the dreaded topic of race and religion,,,,some people wear full head dress which completely covers head and face,,,,will they be asked to remove this before buying items or fuel.............dont think so,,,,so numberplate recognition should be enough for everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!                                                                                                                                                                             

Personally speaking, I remove my lid for the sake of good manners and communication, just the same as I remove my sunglasses. I find it the polite thing to do. Nobody has to ask me to.

I suspect that most of the helmet removal requests (particularly those who've been asked to do so while still at the pumps) is to do with CCTV camera placement, which tend to be placed high up and angled downwards (meaning that even a flip-front or open-faced lid can still obscure the line of sight) and, knowing how insurance companies like to wriggle out of paying claims wherever possible, they've probably added subclauses.

Of course, they wouldn't dare to with regard to people wearing "religious" garb because they'd be scared of falling foul of the racial discrimination or incitement to religious hatred legislation. Not to mention the screaming headlines in the daily wail.

Do petrol station employees deserve to be called "jobsworths" for doing as their employers dictate to them? Perhaps. But if it's the difference between remaining in work and being sacked, then bloody good luck to them.

This is nothing new... People wearing crash helmets have been asked to remove them upon entering premises such as banks and petrol stations for at least the last 25 years. Possibly longer, but I can only speak for when I first noticed such signs on doors.

Just as the argument goes that "they" should have got used to serving people wearing helmets after all this time, shouldn't "we" also have got used to the expectation of helmet removal before receiving service?

Ive no problem removing lid if asked providing it is before i fill up,,,,,whats the point in asking after when ive already got fuel... A simple poster on all pumps requesting removal of lids will resolve this nationwide,,,or is that too easy???? They are quick to put up notices about c/cards and cheques etc.... When i pull up to pumps i fill up sitting on bike, then lock filler cap then dismount,,,,,I find this is easier and saves time and if the forecourt is large enough i will walk bike forward a few yards to allow next customer to use pump before i pay.....removing lid makes this a no no......                                                                                                                                                                             

,whats the point in asking after when ive already got fuel...

Don't know... but how about... So they get your face on the CCTV, in case the credit card you're paying with turns out to be stolen?

Just a thought.
                                                                                                                                                                             

Mmmmmmmmmmmmm I'll stand down on this one   (drat)                                                                                                                                                                             

Sorry! lol Seemed like a logical idea to me

I know that doesn't then translate when you're serving someone wearing a veil... but to be perfectly honest, I've never once seen a veil-wearing person queue up to pay for petrol anyway! I've only ever seen veil-wearing ladies sitting in passenger seats while hubbies go to pay.
                                                                                                                                                                             

typical ladies then.....ouch                                                                                                                                                                             

In my experience petrol stations can't be too concerned over helmet wearing customers.   My experience being over 16,000 miles in around 10 months - that's a lot of fill ups and I've *never* been asked to remove my helmet yet and neither has any one I've been out with if they've also left it on. I'd say 90% of those fill ups have been with helmet in situ. Combine that with the 23,000 miles Geoff has done in the year I've known him and I think he's been asked once or twice...I'd say they're not really all that worried.   As for if it's a matter of politeness, I understand and can agree with the reasoning but removing a helmet etc does not automatically make for a polite person.                                                                                                                                                                              

 A surrender monkey, Cataraptor? Seriously? Wow...   This is, or rather was, a discussion and I was welcoming views from both sides and then offering my opinion as I had listened to theirs.   Yes, from my observation on the other sites of what people were saying, as well as the same contributors comments on other topics, I would say they have a chip on their shoulder.   I doubt that those people are reading the forums on this site so I don't see how it can be ' a common tactic to disparage people with whom one disagrees'.   And as for 'especially if one's arguments are weak' then please state that as a matter of opinion, not as a fact.   You don't want to do something and you are saying why. I don't mind doing it and I am saying why not. At no point am I hoping to shoot down your argument and make you comply.   I participate in these forums in good faith and am prepared to listen to others opinons (and learn from them) without prejudice or confrontation and I do so without expecting to be called childish names.   Surrender monkey... sheesh!                                                                                                                                                                             

It had to be said though that the whole issue of helmets on, biking gear etc is one that has improved dramatically over the last ten to fifteen years.   I for one can't actually remember the last time I was refused entrance into a pub for example.  And yet it used to be a relatively regular occurence with signs even posted outside doors saying "No Bikers".                                                                                                                                                                             

Perhaps it's more a geographical thing then?

Certainly in and around Sarf Lundun I see bike riders regularly being asked to remove their lids.

But then again, car drivers also tend to lock the doors of their cars when they go to pay for their fuel, which seems to cause great hilarity with my friends whenever I do it if I'm visiting with them in areas with somewhat lower crime figures. It's second nature to me now, so I doubt I'll ever stop, no matter where I'm filling up.

Isnt this again down to personal opinion and view point, good debating about any topic is never a bad thing as long as we appreciate we will not all agree, sometimes we learn a thing or too or are able to impart useful knowledge to somebody else.   WB its not just ur way i always lock my car wen i go to pay for petrol even if someones in it !!!                                                                                                                                                                             

Oooh no... never when someone's in it... then I'm fretting in the queue that the petrol pump's going to explode and my passenger will be killed, cos they can't get out and it'll all be my fault... 

                                                                                                                                                                             

O cheers never thought of that but i will now lol