will you stop swearing Terence, this is a bike forum afterall....... please do not mention those tin boxes again...                                                                                                                                                                             

Terence, Terence!!

Only get called that by my doctors receptionist and my Mam when i'm in bother!                                                                                                                                                                              

Your in bother, your swearing, re tin boxes !!                                                                                                                                                                             

Ok Mam!                                                                                                                                                                               

Excellent post RK.                                                                                                                                                                              

It has ever been that way... when I was a little younger, it always seemed to be Volvos... whenever you heard about a mate being in an accident, it was never a surprise to hear the other vehicle involved was a Volvo... If I have a rummage around, I'm pretty sure I'll turn up my "Bike" magazine sticker "Volvo-aware Rider" Statistically, they weren't involved in a hugely larger number of bike-related accidents - but it sure seemed that way at the time!

A little later, it was the BMW's turn... they've never been known as Beemers to me - always BM-Trouble-Yous.

We all know that the make/model of a car makes diddlysquat difference, but as you've pointed out, bike riders/pillions are very vulnerable on the road... It's merely a little "battlefield bravado"... You have to ride defensively, assuming that every other road user is literally out to kill you, then you laugh and poke fun at the "tin canners" or be a "Volvo-aware rider" in order to keep your sanity and to carry on being, frankly, brave enough to be a 2-wheeled road user.

Personally, I think you've probably been lucky in your 5k of riding over the past 3 months. My Dad quit riding after doing the daily commute for 15 years or so (as well as pleasure-riding) after he was riding down a street in broad daylight, with no other traffic or parked cars, having made eye contact with a lady stopped at a junction on a side road and watched her sitting there stationary for a couple of hundred yards as he rode down the street, who then pulled out straight into him as he went past the side turning. SMIDSY.

He felt he was extremely lucky to get away with a broken wrist. My Mother was 8 months pregnant with my sister at the time and he never climbed aboard a bike again, feeling that he'd had a wake up call and that he might not be around to support his wife and 2 children if he continued riding.

I'm not a rider myself, but I've seen enough car drivers suddenly become impatient and swing a U-turn out of a line of traffic, without so much as a glance in their mirrors, never mind a bloody indicator. If you happen to be filtering past one of those numpties, completely legally and at a reasonable speed, you've got no chance!

It's just the way it is. You're never simply a woman driver, always a bloody woman driver... You never simply drive a white van, always white van man... You don't ride a scooter, you've got a hairdryer... You're not a sports bike rider, you're an eejit in a babygro... In a Utopian society, we'd all be road users and whatever we rode/drove wouldn't make any difference, but this is real life and perfectly natural
                                                                                                                                                                             

I once spotted a Volvo estate at a Stafford show with three of four little bikes carefully painted onto the wing, a bit like a fighter pilot's 'kills'. I got the joke, but some others might have had a bit of a sense of humour failure.
For years one of my old BMWs - bikes that is - had a Volvo clock in place of the original item, which made me feel just a bit smug inside!
As for WB's remarks about the dangers of impatient car drivers, that's one reason why I'll filter between two lines of stationary or slow-moving traffic, but think twice about pulling out to the right and overtaking a long queue. Also I remember a hideous accident in North Wales many years ago where a car did just that, took a blind bend on the wrong side of the road and met a local businessman in his Bentley coming the other way. Five dead, and the Bentley driver physically unscathed but a shell-shocked wreck for months.

 that's one reason why I'll filter between two lines of stationary or slow-moving traffic, but think twice about pulling out to the right and overtaking a long queue.

Sounds like a wise attitude to me Wills.

Loving the BMW bike with a Volvo clock!

The Volvo driver with the bike "kills" painted on his wing must have balls of steel - I can just imagine what those who don't get the humour might just do to him/his vehicle!
                                                                                                                                                                             

Good topic RK. there are so many stories we can all recall on this subject , i have a SA friend in London who is an ex-SA superbike track racer, he raced big Kawa's in the late 70's early 80's on most of the tracks in South Africa but never rode a bike on public roads..EVER..as he says it is too dangerous!! personally like many other riders i believe bikers just have to be more aware than drivers , if you hope to reach retirement age that is.

*but this is real life and perfectly natural *

The amount of times we hear statements like that tho Wannabe or 'that's just the way it is' astounds me! As a driver and a bike rider I understand from both sides of the fence but there are many bikers that don't drive cars and have no idea what's involved as there are many car drivers who've never ridden a bike.

A car driver suddenly doing a U turn without checking his mirrors is a bit of a sweeping statement as we know how small bikes are and can easily be hidden in a blind spot. As a car driver I've often pulled up at a junction, had a good look then at the last second realised there's a bike emerging from behind a telegraph pole, street sign, tree or lampost. That's usually because i'm doing a double take for bikes (remember the ad, think once, think twice, think BIKE) that still sticks in my mind after 20 years cos I ride a bike and it's relevant.

As a car driver i've also had a near miss when some plonker on a bike is overtaking a row of cars or had to brake suddenly when he realises he isn't going to make it and jumps into a car length braking from 100mph.

Plonkers are plonkers whether on a bike or in a car and that will never change but fortunately that's the minority. If we can educate as many of the majority as we can then surely we can change the statement to 'that's the way it used to be' and make our roads safer
                                                                                                                                                                             

I personally like using humour to deal with these kinds of things. I don't want it to change.

I agree that people should be educated and I've often spoken of the desire to have everyone experience the roads on 2 wheels, just so they understand the vulnerability before they climb into a protective cage and venture onto the highways. Not necessarily motorised 2-wheels, because many people are simply totally incapable of riding motorbikes, but at least make it essential for them to ride a bicycle for a while.

I don't particularly enjoy being written off as a useless driver just because I happen to be female, but I understand it's just humour, take it on the chin & join in the joke. If female drivers really were the worst drivers, our insurance premiums would reflect that.

A car driver suddenly doing a U turn without checking his mirrors is a bit of a sweeping statement

It wasn't a sweeping statement, it was a real life observation. I've often sat in stationary traffic behind people who've done just that and have thanked the Universe that there wasn't a bike coming up the outside. I live in the South East. I have oooooodles of experience of sitting in stationary traffic! During "rush hour", it regularly takes 2+ hours to travel about 17 miles into London.

I'm extremely bike aware. Even though I don't ride, I've been pillying for nearly 30 years. I've also done plenty of road miles on pushbikes. And I've lost many friends in bike accidents over the years - some totally their own fault, some SMIDSY's.

I'm not claiming that all bikers are wonderful brilliant road users and every incident is the car driver's fault. I've often had a rant about useless bikers who've made stupid moves when I've been on the road. Plonkers are indeed plonkers, whatever they ride/drive, but I really don't see the problem with a little humour.

It's part of how I deal with life. Whether that be concerning roadcraft or working in a dangerous situation (South London door work) or dealing with my Dad's overnight paralysis. Humour's what keeps me partially sane.

Don't misunderstand me Wannabe I wasn't knockin your use of humour, it's what makes the world go round but i can easily look in my mirrors without physically turning my head so someone sitting behind might think i've not used my mirrors when indeed i have. I was told by my driving instructor 20 odd years back to rotate my head when looking in the rear view so the examiner could see I was doing it. I've often got sick of waiting in a queue and done a U turn many a time but i do check for bikes and old people on leccy scooters before making the manouvre  Maybe part of our driver/rider training should include a stint on a bike/car simulator to give us an idea of what's involved for other road users.                                                                                                                                                                              

Honestly - I've been that bored, I've just sat there watching the driver in front of me get more & more irate - looking at his watch, jigging around in his seat, getting his phone out and yelling down it, (probably at some poor underpaid secretary, who can't exactly do anything about the traffic ), slamming his fists on the steering wheel, beeping his horn (like that'll make a difference! )... then as the car in front inches forward a couple of feet, he's wrenched the steering wheel and pulled a U-turn... OK, so I can't categorically state that he definitely didn't glance at his mirrors, but there's just not enough time for a decent check or awareness of blind spots.

I breathe a sigh of relief every time.

If I'm going to pull a slightly unexpected manouvre, I check my mirrors and take a good look over my shoulder, indicate and only then execute it after yet more checking.

*slamming his fists on the steering wheel, beeping his horn (like that'll make a difference! )*

sounds like you've been behind me on my way to a meeting but you've forgot to mention the chain smoking, wiping the sweat from his brow and furiously scratching the back of his neck
                                                                                                                                                                             

I cover the chain smoking bit... there's nothing worse than sitting in traffic for a smoker... I often catch myself reaching for another when I've just stubbed one out!

I was once stuck outside the Blackwall Tunnel - there'd just been an accident inside it. Nothing I could do, nowhere I could go, so I switched the engine off, got out and sat on the bonnet to catch some rays... Phoned the boss, who proceeded to scream obscenities down the phone at me, ranting and raving, while I held the phone at arm's length... had the other motorists in stitches. We ended up with quite a party going on. Way better than allowing the old BP to escalate
                                                                                                                                                                             

Maybe it should be compulsory to carry some party hats and whistles in every car then wannabe seeing as we spend more time stuck than actually driving. You might be onto something there!                                                                                                                                                                               

* rear ended in the car 7 times by other cars*

Nutty I think i'd be tearing my driving license up and sticking to public transport mate
                                                                                                                                                                             

Think you do have more awareness of bikes as a car driver if you pilly or have family that ride.  But saying that whether you ride a bike, drive a car, lorry, milk float or whatever you should make an effort to be aware of all vehicles and remember plonkers can be in charge of any motorised vehicle :)                                                                                                                                                                             

We say car drivers are tin canners. What does that make a three wheel Robin Reliant driver? A fibreglasser?                                                                                                                                                                             

Good question RD as cars aren't actually made of tin, that's open to suggestion!