seems silly though too that like suzuki have stopped producing the awesome gsx 1400 due to emissions...wtf is that about, any mechanical explanations emz ?dont make sense to me                                                                                                                                                                             

Mag and Bmf have acheived quite a lot in their times, 100bhp limit defeated, bus lane useage for motorcycles etc, yes there are a few erm as you call them management types at the upper levels of running MAG but the grass roots are still thick with ordinary people doing a lot giving up their time for nothing in return. MAG is certainly not like any club, the local group help run FYP ITV Ganton Gathering YPR and Spat out of Hull and their meetings are run more on a corporate footing nothing like a club meeting that is far less formal.   I'm a Full and Affilliated member of Mag and an Affilliate of the BMFand Nabbed. Sorry your experiance was not more welcoming RicDude but I've found my local MAG to be fairly friendly, (far more so than the local Harley owners club and certain other clubs in my area) ok as my clubs leiason officer I built up a trust and hopefully mutual respect over a period and it was not a hug and chin wag type of 1st meeting but that can be true of any newbie arriving at any club/or community.                                                                                                                                                                             

I marshalled for 10 years at MAG events, Hull, and yes there is a certain camerardrie among the "troops" but when MAG central stick their oar in and try to make things a commercial success, the plot is lost and the venues/events all look and and feel like clones When Farmyard et al were first concieved they were local events which attracted people from all over the UK and Europe. They (the events) fast became the MAJOR contributors to MAG central funds and were subsequently incorporated into the "corporate" structure. This is where I lost faith with MAG and it will take some serious persuasion to get me active again whilst we have members who make it a full time job and expect a salary for it. I used to give my time freely and willingly till that point, but I now figure after more than 20 years as an active member its time for a rest and let some "young uns" do a bit for a change. All this could change                                                                                                                                                                              

To be fair events like the Farmyard have to be run by a limited company otherwise any major incident could lead to bankrupting MAG and any individuals organising the rallies.    I know what you mean about the "corporate" image it's a bit of a double edged sword, I have no doubt that the carefully researched and slickly presented corporate position does work well with politicians and more particularly the bureaucrats. Personally I think having MPs see a thousand or so pissed off voters queueing at St Stephens Gate to see them also works.  The other point of the direct action bits is that it was fun and also brilliant for recruiting and keeping people interested and involved.                                                                                                                                                                             

Many times, over the years of my membership, I have suggested that a National Demo be organised. Not one GIANT gathering in one place which the "authorities" would need notice of and have to "police", but lots of "local" demos in EVERY town and village across the land. It would only need a few of these and it would raise our (bikers/riders) profile. If we could get some of the commuters to turn up, if only to sign a petition, all over the country, because everyone who rides a powered 2 wheeler needs to know who and why our interests are being guarded. I'm sure it would raise public awareness and removes the need to attend a mass gathering. A fair few locals in places where I have lived have been shocked when I have explained what MAG is for. Maybe its time for some more "direct action"                                                                                                                                                                              

Not me , have not had the need before, but now its more because lately have not really seen them active for bikers ... ok so they say we lobbying to do this that or the other ,,, but has anything really come out of it ?   & with Europe pulling the UK's chains at the moment I dont think things will change                                                                                                                                                                              

i am with ricdude and teecee on this one my local mag group years ago  had organisers who did not have bikes and they had an elitist attitude that the new corporate mag has made worse and i fail to see how a letter in BSH calling for a ban on patch clubs composed by neil liversidge then chairman of mag has anything to do with riders rights that letter in particular caused a lot of people myself included to have strong anti mag feelings that last to this day sensible for a riders rights group to isolate part of the biking comunity                                                                                                                                                                              

Neil Liversidge,the self proclaimed God of Motorcycling and high salary earner. If rumours are true he did it to be self congratulatory and line his own pocket. I could also be wrong here.                                                                                                                                                                             

i doubt you are wrong Rd seems like a great trick to me keep the cannon fodder working marshaling etc for nothing to ultimately pay your high salary                                                                                                                                                                             

Just out of interest, do you have to be a card carrying MAG member to join the mass demos?                                                                                                                                                                             

I think you do Mr Sausage a disservice, I can't say I ever liked the man but I think you need to check your facts before libelling him.    The patch club bit was after a certain club had attempted to take over a major MAG rally, there were a number of very unpleasant incidents at the time and Liversedge and a number of other prominent MAG members received serious threats. Whether the threats originated from members of the club and whether the club sanctioned them or not I dont know and dont care to speculate.   If you don't like the people running your local MAG group that's easy to fix. Any member can be nominated for Rep or any other post, all you need is another member to nominate you and to convince enough members to vote for you to win the ballot. If you win the ballot then all you have to do then is devote a hell of a lot of your time and effort to the job for no reward.    For those concerned about Europe thats what FEMA does, FEMA is an umbrella group for riders rights organisations, you will find many of the member groups are modelled on MAG and in fact MAG helped a number of other countries groups to organise.   As I said before I don't hold MAG up as a model of perfection but no other bugger is doing anything at all, MAG was instrumental in blocking the 100HP limit, type approval legislation, Dr Chinn and his leg protectors, campaigned for bikes in bus lanes, provision of secure bike parking, forced a change in the rules on tarmac overbanding and street furnitures and lord knows how many other things over the last 30 odd years.                                                                                                                                                                              

TeeCee anyone is welcome at any MAG demo the more the merrier.  You will usually see fliers at local bike shops/hangouts advertising them.                                                                                                                                                                              

Cheers Prof! Was just curious...                                                                                                                                                                             

If you read my post again Prof it did say i could be wrong here. To be honest the mag members i have met around my way do stick their collective noses up at custom bikes. But i don't tarnish them all with the same brush as most of them do when it comes to patch clubs in general.                                                                                                                                                                             

Ric if you don't know why post it in the first place? The custom bike bit is interesting, a large proportion of MAG members run old bikes, chops and rats, it's the sport bike brigade that seem to avoid it.   I'm a bit confused at linking customs to patch clubs, I know a number of patches and most of them don't run chops, and I know a fair number of chop owners who have nothing to do with patch clubs. Are most of the chop owners in your neck of the woods patches?                                                                                                                                                                             

prof don't think i am libelling  two clubs that had issues caused a problem at the event and i never heard at the time any suggestion of anybody trying to take over the event and unless my memory is playing tricks the threats came after the lettter in bsh and from supporters not club members and even if i am wrong there is no way there is any justification for a riders rights group calling for the banning of any bike club

Bit of a Hornets nest here I think As said earlier by myself, if it were not for MAG, most sports bike riders would be riding round on "restricted" machines ! Its a bit like refusing to join a union but accepting all the hard won benefits ! People enjoy the freedom to ride what they want, but would not have the option if it were not for the likes of MAG & FEMA and formerly the BMF (before they dissapeared up there own a***s) We ALL have a lot to be thankful for, regardless of our like/dislike of individuals.                                                                                                                                                                             

Prof, www.chopper-club.com will answer your question.                                                                                                                                                                             

I'm with Em on this one, if it wasnt for MAG's actions 20years ago, we wouldnt have the freedom we have now, however MAG did disappear up there own rears and are more like a government's puppet now, rather than the "Action" group that they were supposed to be. I was in MAG when i first started riding but the less they fought for bikers rights, the less interested in them I became as they just seemed to be towing whatever line they were told to by the government.                                                                                                                                                                             

Punkdude, I think we have to differ on this one, my memory is a little different and although not involved I was there at the time. I didn't particularly agree with Liversedges letter but I can certainly appreciate why he felt that way.  Personally I found him to be an irritating and annoying sod with some ludicrously OTT ideas but whatever else he put one hell of a lot of time, energy and effort into the job.   Fiesty - as I have already said I feel MAG was more effective and a hell of a lot more fun when it was "Action" rather than men in suits but again until someone comes up with something better I'll keep paying my subs.    Of course if people want to change MAG it just needs enough people to put the time in, work hard, get elected to rep, then regional rep, then NC and then we can change policies.