Hehe! How about 2-up to the Kent Custom on a 125 that SHOULD have been displaying L-plates?  Not that I would have ever engaged in such desperado activity myself, of course *ahem*

& thank goodness they didn't have CCTV back then... I'll say no more & mention no names to protect the guilty 

Sorry Lamble - that's another thing I know naff all about & it's probably high time I STFU about things I know nothing of.

Believe that, you'll believe anything!
                                                                                                                                                                             

Tut Tut!!!     Of course, that sort of thing would never happen now...                                                                                                                                                                              

Be interesting if the HAs were a registered charity.                                                                                                                                                                             

lamble there is no legal status same as there isn't for any club they are a bike club which so far doesn't have a legal requirement other than the same as any individual abide by the law of the land                                                                                                                                                                              

Mr Holland seems to classify the HAMC as an "organised crime group"... I think what Lamble's asking is whether or not that's the official line of the authorities here in the UK, or just Mr Holland's personal opinion.

"It raises a significant sum of money for an organised crime group."

                                                                                                                                                                             

would'nt it be great to have some input from a couple of Angels members and get their views on the Bulldog Bash ?                                                                                                                                                                              

Punkdude,

Even clubs, if they open a bank account, are required to have some status. Now I know you'd not sit down with the bank manager and when they ask what status, say illegal crime organisation, but there must be some entity that they hold.

But more importantly, if the police say they are an organised crime organisation, then surely that makes them an illegal organisation and gives the police the right to arrest them just for being a member.

If not, then they are legal and as such entitled to hold this event surely.
Where's the grey on this?

here in holland the club is being made illegal i think and the HAs have been in court (As a club) i think for the past year or 2.   Most of the drug trade in Europe comes through the Netherlands, and most of that is controlled by the HAs here (I believe).   I personally have no opinion on the HAs, as I don't know enough about the group                                                                                                                                                                             

Hmmm... that's interesting Matt... I thought in recent years that the Eastern Europeans had pretty much taken over the drugs/human trafficking in the Netherlands... And London, come to think of it. There certainly seems to be a huge number of Eastern Europeans involved in prostitution at least. Poor cows. Think they're coming to England for a good job and a nice life with a reasonable standard of living and end up getting trapped into prostitution by the people who pretend to be "helping" them.

But that's a whole other thread.

Allegedly. I knew a double glazing manufacturer who did a nice sideline in drug trafficking. Allegedly. He was in the Federation of Master Builders and the Glass and Glazing Federation. I wonder if his membership of these associations mean that all members are considered to be drug traffickers?

And, as recently pointed out to me, if we're going down the "guilt by association" route, can we please arrest every last MP and bang 'em all up for a few years? Pretty please? None of yer namby pamby open prisons to serve their sentences either. They've committed fraud on a massive scale with public money, so I think maybe the gulags or forced labour might be more appropriate? 

*edits post to bung a few "allegedly's" in*

*ahem* Please don't sue me - I'm not worth it!
                                                                                                                                                                             

That could explain why licking upvc windows is so addictive.

Anyway, I'm sure there's a legal element to this that needs to be addressed and as English law tends to be based on precedent, does anyone know of any that's comparable and what was the result?

How does a club get taken to trial ? an individual belonging to a club i can understand ! the Americans and Canadians have tried to subdue biking clubs before with little or no success .I thought that ended with the Berlin wall coming down in 87/88 .                                                                                                                                                                             

A club, if registered for banking etc, has to have a club secretary at least.
If there's any heirarchy, it could be the leaders who are taken to court as official representatives of the club.

Goes back to how they are founded , run and what legal entity they have taken, if any. That's also why I asked if they'd taken a charitable status.

The Fed had just pulled in a whole group of HAs from the West Coast while I was in Seattle ( a few of them were based there). Brought in on weapons charges and tax evasion. With one head taken, it cascades down and lots more were pulled in. It's an ongoing thing over there.

Its true Lamble , it does cascade down , however being confined effectively means nothing , life carries on and nothing changes...i still believe that certain groups are made to be the scapegoats for no other reason except that they are visible . I respect the angels and any other biker group and will not condemn them as a club for isolated incidents performed by a rogue member or two . I know that maybe you and many other bikers feel the same way.