XK - really wouldn't wanna live there myself!  Not such a nice place compared with the rural south.   Rotterdam is now 53% immigrants!                                                                                                                                                                             

XK - deleted your post just now, lol.  But the answer to your question is - No, all moroccan or turkish.   Let's keep the racist slang off the site folks, this topic is for healthy discussion into the politics behind banning a Dutch MP from entering the UK.                                                                                                                                                                             

Was looking through the posts and just thought when did the UK stop being Democracy and become a Dictatorship with so much censorship and is there any way back                                                                                                                                                                             

yes there is a way back - everyone needs to stand up for what they believe in and take action!   Write to your MP and local newspaper about your thoughts.  Be diplomatic about it and if more people do it then the MP is obliged to take action.   The problem is that other people are more passionate about their beliefs than you are, but they are the minority with the biggest mouths (I'm sure there's a word for that, but I can't think of it. Damn my English education in school! lol)                                                                                                                                                                             

Aint never going to happen Matt. the only time the British people stand up is when there backs are to the wall and the enemy is at the gate                                                                                                                                                                             

Matt, I'm afraid that the Dutch are out of luck, being a parochial bunch most Brits only ever notice things in our own backyard and even then only when our noses are rubbed in it. Todays news story will use up most of the limited political attention in this country as it is a subject a lot of people are piss*d about, another row about foreign workers,  notice that the Government isn't saying that the figures are wrong, just claiming that they are "politically motivated". It's interesting to note that a couple of weeks after Jacqui Smith was caught out fiddling ONS crime figures the goverment now claims that the ONS is attacking Brown by publishing accurate emploment figures.       http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5...712634.ece http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/feb/04/immigration-fo...gn-workers http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1143123/Labour-...itain.html                                                                                                                                                                               

http://timesonline.typepad.com/politics/2009/02/foreign...orker.html   Netherlands has by FAR the lowest unemployment figures in Europe. Not only that, but more people got work than lost it in these figures.  Cool!   Ok, but we're going off track.  Does anyone agree with Geert Wilders being banned from entering another European country when he's commited no crime and threatened no people?                                                                                                                                                                             

Everybody should have freedom of speech it is the basis of democracy so the British Government should not be stopping him enter. This is an infringement in his basic civil liberties                                                                                                                                                                             

Ok... I have done a couple of hours research after Matt's post on this guy and I can't say I am particularly a fan of the man or some of his manifesto.   He talks about freedom and democracy yet calls for the Koran to be banned. His links with the Middle East and Israel and the time he has spent over there are also interesting.   I am no fan of this (or any other) government but here is my humble opinion. If attempts are being made to heal the rifts caused by the Middle East conflict and the Extremist Muslims then the last thing you need is someone who is out to deliberately antagonise them to come over and stir things up - if you are trying to tame a wild bull you do not poke it with sharp sticks...   As I said, I have a feeling about the guy and I think there is more to it than the media are concentrating on... please feel free to disagree.                                                                                                                                                                             

.. but then if you have a blanket agreement on Freedom of Speech we would have to let back in the Extremist Muslim Clerics who are also banned under the same law.                                                                                                                                                                             

Thing with extremists of any kind you cant debate with them they are set in there ways and see your attemps to debate as weakness   Was it 400 years ago we would be debating the inquisition and fundamentalist Christions                                                                                                                                                                              

he's not an extremist though.  He has no problems with Muslims.  He does however say that Islam is a 'retarded, backward religion' and muslims who are pro-democracy and peace should tear out certain pages of the Koran.   He wants the Koran banned in the Netherlands in it's current form if the muslims are not prepared to accept a change to it's contents.   He (rightly, I believe) compares it to Hitler's facist book.   Just watch the Fitna movie I posted a link to, or search around the net for some of the things that the Koran says - it's terrible and extremely violent!   But, beliefs aside... he should not have been banned from entering the UK.  He's a European citizen (MP at that) and has no crimes against him for hatred.  So, why should he be banned because one person in the UK at the home office believes his views are too radical?  He's coming to the UK to discuss (With parliament) his views in a diplomatic way (And was invited).  He's NOT wanting to go to the UK to preach hatred on the streets of London.                                                                                                                                                                             

I'm with TC on this one attacking all of a faith because of some nasty verses in their holy book is dangerous territory. "believes all good muslims should be prepared to tear out certain pages of the Koran if they want to live in a peaceful western world"   I doubt the Dutch Reformed church would like being told that "good" christians had to rip pages out of the bible because it has nasty verses in it.                                                                                                                                                                               

The enemies not at the gate,its on our streets protesting against us. We let it happen. As for Holland,i have a few mates over there and its a beautiful country with respectful people. I for one can't wait to leave this country again. Wish i never came back in the first place. England? Can poke it. I know this might upset some people on here and its not aimed at anyone personally so don't get upset.                                                                                                                                                                             

Nooo! A good debate going on and I have a power cut halfway through a reply (at 10.15) Allah - is that you? Sorry guys, doesn't look as if it is coming back on tonight so I am heading to bed. Will post tomorrow hopefully...
TC - via mobile phone!                                                                                                                                                                              

Who do the home office think they are banning a respected, highly popular, elected member of a European parliament from entering the UK???

Erm... small point of order... it's being reported here that he's awaiting trial in the Netherlands for inciting hatred and discrimination by making anti-Islamic statements.

Otherwise, yes, it seems that once again, the British Government is demonstrating admirably how their left hand doesn't know what their right hand's doing. Besides, the chap in question already visited the UK in December. Anyone notice?

As for Prince Harry... he doesn't refer to all people who come from Pakistan as "Paki", he referred to one colleague as such... & you can bet yer bottom dollar that his colleagues call him all sorts of derogatory names, either for his hair colour or referring to who his father "really" is (despite the fact that lady Di didn't even meet Hewitt til after Harry was born, and completely ignoring the fact that he's the spit of Prince Philip and how most of the Spencer family are redheads!)

Saying another looked like a "raghead"? Derogatory? Hell yes! But surprise, surprise... When you're training young people to go off and kill other young people in wars, you don't tend to say about the opposing side "Oh, they're terribly unfortunate individuals, who've been conscripted against their will to fight for a regime they don't believe in and their families can only scratch a meagre existence by growing poppies for the international drug cartels".

It's only because it's Harry that it's "newsworthy" (some YEARS after the occasion) and regrettably, our media delight in their mock-shock, while rubbing their hands together in collective glee, thinking of the extra sales/listeners/viewers that yet another Harry gem will bring.

Dressing up as a Nazi to go to a private fancy dress party? Ill-advised perhaps, given his position, but hardly a statement of being a racist. A bunch of us dressed up as characters from 'Allo 'Allo for a party once. Nobody accused us of racism.

                                                                                                                                                                             

  Let's keep the racist slang off the site folks, this topic is for healthy discussion into the politics behind banning a Dutch MP from entering the UK.   Yes lets!! Seems to me Matt that it is YOU who are forever slagging off Britain!! I for one am sick of seeing posts about how crap Britain is. Yes we know it aint perfect and I expect most of us have slagged it off at one time or another but do you have to keep slagging it off?   You've left Britain now and your life is excellent, so you keep telling us, so perhaps you could just say how great Holland is and not keep slagging off my homeland?   Of course you are entitled to your opinion, like I hope I'm entitled to mine and this doesn't get edited or deleted, but it really annoys me that you slag off Britain a lot.   You said that Brits should stand up for what they believe and not be dictated to, seems a bit hypocritical of you considering you left England.                                                                                                                                                                                 

I agree with you , Mick, about the Extremists and fanatism which is why there will never be an instant solution. It will take many years of work from people on the inside of these organisaions to make any significant changes.   Matt - check out this guys background and see if it is really the Dutch people he is looking out for. Consider how much time he has spent in Israel, how well connected he is over there and the fact that he is a self-confessed Zionist.   I think his trip this time to the UK has been very carefully manipulated by a self-promoting publicist to cause as much disruption and fill as many news-column inches as possible (which it has successfully done!).   The media reports it and the public laps it up as another civil liberty infringement on a guy who is just after freedom of speech... but is he?   He is currently trying to change the Constitution of the Netherlands to remove the first article about equal rights so it is easy to discriminate against Islamists.   I am not going to repeat a load of facts about him on here as you can research him yourself if you want to devote some time to it (I did, cos I wanted to peep behind the curtains of what was going on) but for someone whose party is called the Party for Freedom, it is interesting how his manifesto includes:   a ban on Islamic headwear in public functions 5 year stop on brides of foreign countries build feeding camps and discipline schools more police, and use of army within public zones ban on Islamic schools limit public television to a single channel His ban on everything he doesn't agree with himself will just cause it to go underground and increase membership of the more extremist factions. Sounds as thought he wants Freedom ok, but only for things he agrees with....   I think he has been stopped from entering the UK this time as he obviously has an agenda. His presence would certainly stir things up here and I agree that it would cause a security problem. He has many death threats against him so what is to stop someone strapping an IED to themselves and blowing him and a lot of others up. Then the media & public would be outraged as to how the UK could let such a person into this country if there was the possibility that this could happen....    One last thing, before I finish talkng about this attention seeking 'politician' - before he changed the name to Party for Freedom, it was called Group Wilders.....                                                                                                                                                                               

p.s. WB - did you see that Prince Harry's friend rang him up to say that he was not bothered about the allegation at all and then they just chatted for ages about the combat? That wasn't very widely publicised was it... wonder why?   .. and this one that appeared over the weekend about the comedian and Prince Harry's comments - if you watch this guy's act then the first fifteen minutes of it is him actually impersonating a 'black man' by speaking with a strong West Indian accent before he confesses he doesn't really speak like that and just did it for comic effect...   Matt - this is relevant because it just shows how the media can put a spin on any news event to fit a certain agenda.                                                                                                                                                                             

A couple of points spring to mind with this.   The first one is that he should have been refused entry because of his hairdo!   A second and less flippant point is the irony involved in the whining about freedom of speech. Hypocritical bullshit! The Dutch politician wants to ban a publication because he doesn't like its contents. ie Restricting freedom of speech and rights to beliefs. Yet when he gets treated in exactly the same way he starts moaning that his right to free speech has been witheld. So either he's an idiot, or he thinks everyone else is.   A third point would be that the British government has the right to refuse entry to anyone they don't want in the country. I'm sure none of us would allow someone into our homes that we didn't like. They are an elected government, if people don't like what they're doing they can vote them out come election time.   A fourth point would be that he wasn't visiting Britain for a social call, holiday, business. He was visiting Britain to drum up support and publicity for his views and opinions. He got his way on part of it.   A final general point regarding Britain. I hear and see a good many people registering their displeasure with living here, and the state it's gotten into. Firstly, please feel free to piss off anytime you want. The borders aren't closed so you'll have no trouble leaving. Secondly, the government didn't create the problems, and they can't fix them. That's up to the British Citizens to sort out. This can be done by voting, working, paying taxes, being socially responsible etc etc. There's way too much whinging and moaning, and not much in the way of action from the population. It's always someone elses problem to sort out.