think you could be right there tangoman                                                                                                                                                                             

oh yea lawyers - think of all the money saved by the CPS! Jeees.  Even more prisons could be afforded.  We should buy an island and dump all of them there (Oh yea, we did that once before hahahaha)                                                                                                                                                                             

We could always dump them in France & wall the place up? Good way of keeping the French out of the rest of the world too,two birds with one stone? It'll be years before this is implemented,but it will happen someday,whether we agree to it or not.It'll take advances in DNA storage too i.e population of 60 million,where do you you store them all safely? Its a bit like hoping for Utopia,when the the actual real meaning of that word is 'noplace'.Crime is going to be with us for a very long time & we all have to hope it doesnt affect us or our nearest & dearest.Best thing we can all do is be aware of it & act accordingly.                                                                                                                                                                             

and also reduce it as best we can Oggy.   Yes it does come down to parenting, except for 1 problem...Theres already bad people, who had bad parents.  They're always going to have bad kids and influence their children in bad ways.   And dont send them all to France! It's too close to me in Holland then, lol.                                                                                                                                                                             

Yeah,and the principal is agood one.Yet more tax payers millions to be spent on the many things this country lacks,                                                                                                                                                                              

Have to agree with you Matt on this.Take for instance these serial murderers,well if everyone gave their DNA, then by rights serial murders,rapes etc should decrease dramatically.I think anyone that refuses to give a sample like you said,has something to hide or is plain obstinate and anti-authority.These things are put in place to help protect us,our family and friends and all potential victims of crime.Of course there will be mistakes but the good thing about DNA is, it is easily rectifiable,all the police have to do,and they would of course,is to take another sample from you and if you were innocent then no problem.Case solved lol.

Quote:"It's about freedom to choose, and I choose NOT to. Until it's made compulsory of course, seems to be the way of things lately...if they can't make us volunteer they press -gang us into it by making it LAW."                                      So that means Kwak,that anyone inclined towards commiting crime,or having temptations to do something bad,can simply say,"i have the freedom to choose not to give a sample".I am perfectly sure that if anyone close to you suffered due to this so called freedom,you would,i am positive,change your mind on this subject.No offence intended but put yourself in the shoes of those who have suffered incredible pain and agony due to this loophole which favours the criminal element in our society.                                                                                                                                                                              

french are ok good an bad like the rest of us!!!good bikin country,nice wayof life!how can yu break the cycle of bad parents producin bad kids,[are all of em bad!]my dadwas a strict tough ex soldier, chauvinist,i am totally different wouldnt say boo to a goose[despite how i may appear on here!]he beat me regulary for any minor offence!and would think nothin of hittin anyone causin truoble in the street[i cringed in embarasment!]in the knowledge that someone would back him up!,this was jus after the war when peeps stuck together havin fought together they felt a community spirit which is lackin now,there were crims of course[an peudo's] an wasnt a golden age of no crime but peeps felt safer cos they knew everyone in thire st,an felt they could trust em them!!an felt more secure,an of course the old  bobby on a bike on on the scene more!! [who realy did grab yu by the ear!!ouch!!]god i am showin me age!                                                                                                                                                                             

I'd agree with giving my dna, no problem, to get all crime down we need to actually give criminals a proper sentence, to me (no offence to anyone) but once they have committed a crime they should loose their human rights, punishment should mean just that, they shouldn't have access to tv's, stereo's etc, believe it or not a couple of years ago when i worked in a famous catalogue store (not Index), a local prison came to the store to collect their copies, apparently the prisoners were goin mad and sayin their human rights were bein breached as they hadn't got their  new copy on time, they don't deserve to have any kind of luxury, they are in prison for a reason,what about the human rights of those people they have robbed, raped, killed, etc???????????? Maybe if they had the old style prisons and proper sentences, they might think twice about doing it again, and crime would go down more.   As for bad people create bad people - yes i agree to a degree, as not all kids want the same life as their parents, yes it's a hard thing  not to be the same,(my parents weren't criminals, just drunks, fighting all the time etc), i was determined to turn out a good person and bring my kids up differently, and hopefully i have, lol, my family call me the snob, just because i do things different, and i've worked my a** off to get what we have, so far so good with my kids, fingers crossed, hopefully they'll continue to stay on the straight and narrow. Thats what i hope anyway,                                                                                                                                                                             

Voice of reason there Chele  completely agree with you on that one about the human rights issue.

  I am perfectly sure that if anyone close to you suffered due to this so called freedom,you would,i am positive,change your mind on this subject. Then you'd be wrong   No offence intended.  No offence taken                                                                                                                                                                              

this subject is a minefield for debate, and its not only the starting issue of compulsory DNA databases, human rights issues etc etc and where it will lead to. None of this matters without the correct infrastructure in place in our courts. For example (both these are true) a man 6 times over the legal drink limit  mounts the pavement, at lunchtime, in a village and ploughs into and kills a woman, her 3 year old child and a baby in a buggy. He gets fined £1500....... A motorcyclist is caught by police with a speed trap doing 101miles an hour on the M90. He is banned for 1 year, fined £1000 and gets a 30 day prison sentence..................  This country has too many things to recify before it takes on something else. Get the foundations right and in place then think about implimenting DNA databases. 

Very good point - it disgusts me how bad the courts are here                                                                                                                                                                             

Quote: "a massive IT project like this can always be scuppered by sod's law and the human factor"     Told you so...QED as they used to say in old fashioned school textbooks                                                                                                                                                                             

take it we agree trickonology is fallible then? Sure correctable sometime, like the guy with firearm residue 'convicted' of killing jill dando might yet be. Sure you could correct for anyone put in the 'guilty' frame by planted dna. Sure you can correct mismatches. Eventually...occaisionally...   Don't take me amiss, I'm all for applying more science to our problems, just strikes me as naive assuming any mindless methodology is of itself going to have any significant impact whatsoever on man's ingenuity at circumventing, misusing or anyway turning anything to any purpose anyone puts their mind to.   While I'm on a roll, pmsl, how about fingerprinting we've been using for over a 100 years. Imagine setting about assessing the impact of that on crime, as a case study of the impact of biometrics on crime. Granted less than 100% of the population on record, but a lot larger percentage than dna currently. My fingerprints have been taken, entirely innocently hence destroyed, yeah right as someone's already said, lol. I think I read the fingerprinting database is about 16M now (officially, lol) but who knows, quite large anyway.   Yet dare I say far as I can see fingerprinting has had no significant effect on crime whatsoever. Sure it's changed crime, how such is gone about now compared then, but that's all, lol.   I tend to go with matt on the 'england's lost the plot' tack, but that's not dna, this is long enough, and at least the majority of bikers of any nationality tend to nod at, look out for and help other bikers safely negotiate what always was, is now, and ever will be dangerous journeying.   The rest of the population could do worse than take a leaf out of any biker's bible, including double dutch land matt, lol. It's dangerous out there, take care...                                                                                                                                                                             

Actually Matt DNA does lie........backed into a corner and prodded with a sharp stick it will tell you ANYTHING! #   I swear I had Ronnie Corbetts DNA in the corner the other day and it swore blind it was from a 6`10" Negro who played basketball for an Iowa college team!                                                                                                                                                                             

DNA DATABASE , ok heres one for all of you , WHY DO YOU THINK everything is is not a round price ie ( £4.99 or 49p ) because they keep the pennys going round to get everyones dna on record ........more people handle pennys than anyother form of money . take a bit of a think isnt it so much easyer just to pay £5 instead of £4.99 why the penny dif , and dont say so it feels like you getting something back or you got some money in your pocket .                                                                                                                                                                             

also a problem with dna is what if you were at a place someone got killed , but if you were there the day before and your dna was the only one that they found . you get the guilty and go down and the real crim is still out there ....                                                                                                                                                                             

But I've already spread my dna around the uk I've no intention of spreading it any more!!

You didn't spread it Oggy.........you "Smeared" it!   "Oggy the phantom curtain streaker!"