New penalties to tackle careless driving announced by the Department of Transport.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-penalties-to-tac...ne-hogging                                                                                                                                                                              

Must say I've got some reservations about this. Speeding, jumping the lights and the like are all easily definable offences and if the police catch you doing it they've got you by the short and curlies, even if you get away with a bollocking and no more.
But making hogging the middle lane or taking the wrong lane though a roundabout into a criminal offence? It's annoying and rude to other drivers, but that's about all. It seems that the powers that be are trying to make the Highway Code into law, when it's really just good sound advice and no more.
I reckon it means that someone driving or riding solo across an unfamiliar city centre could tot up points at an alarming rate. Take it to its conclusion and getting lost and confused could end up as an offence, the way I see it. 
Maybe I'm turning into a prophet of doom, but could these rules also be used to reimpose a clampdown on bikes filtering? NOT a good idea!                                                                                                                                                                             

  I reckon all road users should have to re read an up- to- date highway code and be tested on it. Maybe that would help eliminate some bad road usage?   Some car drivers seem to be unaware of a pedestrian's right of way when walking on a pavement that crosses a car park exit. The times I've been nearly run over and given dirty looks by the driver, as if I'm jay walking when I've actually got the right of way.    The Highway code applies to cyclists too but you wouldn't know it by their total disregard for traffic lights, pedestrian only pavements etc                                                                                                                                                                              

I agree with you Wills, this could end up whereby law-abiding people could well end up with a criminal record at the end of the day.  Which in turn I would imagine is going to have a chain reaction events.  You'll have to disclose it when you apply for a job, vehicle insurance, etc, etc!

What the Government should have done is make driving with no insurance a huge fine of say a £1000, which would perhaps make people think twice bout driving with no cover.  But for now as it's cheaper to risk and pay the fine which is often cheaper than what it would be to be covered its not rocket science why people do it.

And as for using a mobile phone while your driving (not a hands free set up), again it should be something like a £1000 fine and 6-points on your licence, as currently most people just seam to think what-the-hell, what's the worst that can happen!.

However, I think we need to ask if this is being done one the 'merits' of encoraging more safety and better driving or simply a cash-cow for the Government to yet again extract more monies from those that own a vehicle?  Me personally I think it's the latter
                                                                                                                                                                             

I wish I was on commission.   At 100 quid a pull, this time next year I would be a millionaire!                                                                                                                                                                             

ERRR criminal record ?????

Being fined £100/3 points for driving/riding like an ignorant muppet down middle of a 3 lane motorway won't get you a criminal record.  It's classed as a minor offence under road traffic Act and or breaches of the Highway Code.... which you as a road user should know

http://legal.ukmotorists.com/highway%20code.asp

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/contents

Swapping lanes on a roundabout...... a bikers nightmare it's not rude it's bloody dangerous, disappointed to read that especially on here

Hogging lanes slows traffic down and forces everyone into the outside lane to get past.  It then causes some clowns to undertake raising the risk to everyone of an accident. 

Mobile phones are bad as soon as the traffic slows down it's an excuse to text.  So when we filter past we have a car all over the place or not paying attention.

How ever having worked with Police on road stops and a trained mortuary officer covering call outs I have seen my fill of the end results.

Sorry no excuse for any of it 
                                                                                                                                                                             

The Highways agency needs to get the roads signed up properly so that there is no confusion over who should be in what lane on a roundabout.
One roundabout I have in mind is in Lincoln,as you come from the marina, over the bridge and towards the retail park, the approach has 3 lanes. The left for turning left, no brainer. The right for turning right, also a no brainer. The middle lane, however, is for taking the second exit and also for turning right. Now, as you exit the roundabout on the second exit, you enter a two lane section of road, but you enter on the right hand lane.
The number of car drivers who try to intimidate a 40 ton truck, following the line of the road, is quite common, even though they are in the wrong lane to start off with, just because they dont want to get in behind a truck.
This normally only happens at peak times, which beggars belief, because you are no sooner off the roundabout, within 100 metres you are at traffic lights, and nine times out of ten sitting in standing traffic.
My point is this, if the road signs clearly indicated to road users which lane is dedicated to which exit from the roundabout, a lot less tempers would get frayed.                                                                                                                                                                             

Madscots, you've put your finger on it when you say that hogging lanes slows traffic down and forces everyone into the outside lane to get past. I couldn't agree more, and if the police can pull such a driver over and advise him about the error of his ways and, at their discretion, issue a ticket, then more power to them.

But the implication is that the driver, obviously, has to be in the middle lane, and also driving so slowly as to be an impediment to the smooth flow of traffic. Simply using the middle lane at an appropriate speed at a time when it might be better to be in the left hand lane (if it is safe to do so) seems more like a matter of discourtesy to me. Either way, the police are going to have to use their discretion, which is far more limited when it comes to black or white offences like speeding, traffic light jumping, failing to stop when required etc.

Has the Ministry has simply dropped hints to police forces that they have the powers to curb this type of behaviour, and that they should use them rather more forcefully if needed? Or is the Ministry trying to slip a new offence on to the statute book without it going through Parliament first? It wouldn't be the first time that governments (of any party) have tried that one on.


                                                                                                                                                                             

The sad fact of it all is to be honest is that their aint enough cops out there to enforce it                                                                                                                                                                               

Here's a thought....how close to a car does a bike have to be before we're deemed to be tail-gating.??...bikers have more spacial awareness than car drivers and invariably ride "too close for comfort" according to them....but to us there's enough room to fit a doubledecker bus...haha

More Legislation                                                                                                                                                                              

I am confuse as to the term middle lane hogging. Surely hogging the outside lane (supposedly the overtaking lane) is much more dangerous. There has been many a time that I have seen on three lane motorways, a continual line of traffic in the outside lane, with hardly any traffic in the middle and near side lanes. This to me is dangerous and very bad for traffic flow. Regarding tail gating I am all in favour of convictions for this offense. We as motorcyclists are very vulnerable when this happens to us. There are clear guide lines as to what is a safe distance to follow behind another vehicle. This distance varies with actual road speed. Many areas now have the two chevron guide, with road markings. These I believe are set at a distance for the particular speed limit on the road in question. If you obey these distances at all speeds below the speed limit, then there will not be a problem with the definition of what distance will get you in trouble. From what I have seen over the years, most motorway accidents are initiated by either tail gating, or lane changing. Now the use of mobile phones while driving has come into the equation. Penalties should definitely be increased substantially for this offense, the fines may as well stay the same, as the loss of a persons licence is likely to cause more financial loss and inconvenience in the long run. I think lane changing on a roundabout is a bit more tricky. For instance when turning right at a roundabout unless the road markings show otherwise, it is necessary to change to the nearside lane just before your exit left. Some roundabouts clearly are marked for you to stay in a particular lane including your exit. If you are in an unfamiliar area and in bad visibility things could go wrong in terms of being in the correct lane at the right time. However there is an answer to that (as there always is), stay the wrong lane, even if you have to take the wrong exit. Your route can always be corrected elsewhere in a safe location, where as life cannot be replaced.   Lastly, why can't I just do a couple of one liners instead of writing a bloody book.  Sorry peeps                                                                                                                                                                              

coming back down m5 one night ,came across the ultimate i've seen.....volvo v series estate car,towing caravan........in FAST LANE....nothing for 100yards behind or ahead,u.k.plates,doing 60mph as if nothing else existed on earth,3 miles shy of any junction....came up alongside inside to look and make sure driver was awake,busy watching sat.nav./plus dash mounted dvd player,interior lights on as well.....scarey....swear he did not even notice me as i passed by and away...                                                                                                                                                                             

This could turn into a serious conversation!!! if were not careful ;)

However my vote goes with Firetrap-do we really need more legislation, especially the sort that seems to want us to part with more of our cash?

How many so-called 'laws' are already out there that do exactly that.  just a stealth tax system is what we have in the country and its getting worse.

WE will be getting fined for farting in public soon under some environmental act or summat, you watch!!  Police will have fart detectors on their patrol cars.

is it me or is there something definately wrong with this country?                                                                                                                                                                             

DukeZ.... Serious conversations are good. We need more of these to bring extra interest back to BM. You can't beat a good forum discussion , well apart from a ride on the bike, that goes with out saying .   Tis true there is too much legislation in this country and even more due to the EEC. As to a farting tax,  I can think of a number of cases where that would be a good thing . Like certain instances out with some of my mates, well best not go into that one.                                                                                                                                                                             

I can only hope they will include drivers who shave, put make up on, read files, read the paper, use their ipads, eat breakfast, drink coffee.......oh yes these are just some of the drivers who travel down Princess Parkway in Manchester and in the city centre.    As a newbie biker it frustrates me.  But I have also driven for 26 years and its simply just bad, thoughtless, ignorant, selfish driving and the attitude of drivers seems to be getting worse.   I am all for less legislation but it seems that no-body thinks that they have to take responsiblity for their own behaviour and actions, so, quite honestly,  if they get fined as punishment well GOOD.        Last night was a prime example of lane hogging....eejit in the outside lane of Princess Parkway, slowing the traffic down and then  somehow managed not to see the police car with flashing lights and sirens on for a couple of minutes!!!!!         IMHO that driver shouldn't be allowed out in a car ever again, as if he/she couldn't see a police car with blues & twos on behind it, then there is no hope for them seeing of the rest of us out there whatever vehicle we are using.   RB (getting off soap box)                                                                                                                                                                             

I just got a visual telling off for "hogging the middle lane" yesterday, ironically the guy who did it chose to undertake me to do so .
I actual fact I'd pulled out to overtake a car, which then speeded up as I came along side, I was on cruise control at 70. Just as I was thinking about pulling back in I noticed the idiot undertaking me, hence preventing me pulling back in. By the time he'd passed me he had to pull out around the car i was originally overtaking, who'd slowed down again and I cruised past. Apart from us three the 3 lane motorway was empty at the time.
How can the police be expected to enforce a law that can have such loose definition?? especially when they're undermanned anyway.                                                                                                                                                                             

After driving lorrys, vans, cars and now motorbikes. It dose annoy me to hell and back when people drive slow in the wrong lane slowing down traffic, or having others undertake them, just to get moving along :(. (Something I don't do)

So I am in favor of finding the buggers that don't know how to drive properly and are making getting around harder :(

(Is there any need to sit in the right hand lane of a dual caraige way for over a mile, go over the roundabout and still stay in the right hand lane for another mile until the next roundabout and then take the right exit, all at 40 mph in a NSL zone) nope but I see it nearly everyday on the way home :( some drivers deserve to be fined as they are a danger to other road users :(

 All I know is that one particular member on here claims that the speed limit is 10mph added to whatever the legal speed limit is plus another 15%...don't they Mr Neale.                                                                                                                                                                              

Who meeee   No it's 10%. And for speed cameras I think plus 2mph on top of the 10 % to get on a speed awareness course, instead of points.  Not telling how I new that , but it weren't cheap.